[Aztlan] Captives and Hair Pulling

Fri Aug 4 14:41:34 CDT 2006

I have somewhere an account of captives seized by the hair and led (dragged,
carried) up the steps of the pyramid to be sacrificed.  I'll post the
reference when I find it.

Regards,

Greg

(614) 517-7204
greg at gregsandor.com
http://www.gregsandor.com
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Allen Johnson" <allenj456 at yahoo.com>
To: <aztlan at lists.famsi.org>
Sent: Friday, August 04, 2006 12:31 PM
Subject: RE: [Aztlan] Captives and Hair Pulling

> Its also interesting that according to Ross Hassig in 'Aztec Warfare:
Imperial Expansion and Political Control' cutting the hair was at least also
a REWARD for those who had taken captives in battle.
>   "A captor's tuft of hair was cut.  If the capture had required the help
of others, however, the hair was shorn on the left side of his head, but the
right side was left long, reaching the bottom of his ear.  Thus the youth
was honored, but he was also told to take another captive unassisted to
prove that he was a man." (p. 36)  Hassig cites 'Sahagun 1954:75' in his
Notes on this
>   -Allen
>
> Robert Evans <revans at atoda.com> wrote:
>   Perhaps the hair shaving and pulling has a "humiliation" factor, but
that
> might be a bit of projection from our western society. Not all cultures do
> an "end-zone dance" in victory, watch a winning sumo wrestler for example.
>
> I'd guess that in the case of high ranking captives for ritual sacrifices
it
> would have been important to retain respect for the victim. Surely the
> higher the status of the person to be sacrificed, the greater the tribute
to
> the Gods?
>
> Robert Evans
> revans at atoda.com
> <>-----Original Message-----
> <>From: aztlan-bounces at lists.famsi.org [mailto:aztlan-
> <>bounces at lists.famsi.org] On Behalf Of Allen Johnson
> <>Sent: August 4, 2006 8:14 AM
> <>To: Justin Kerr; aztlan at lists.famsi.org
> <>Subject: RE: [Aztlan] Captives and Hair Pulling
> <>
> <>"...we assumed this position was a Maya way of saying "time out" or "I
> <>give up"..." Really? I'm very curious as to what led to that conclusion!
> <>From a martial arts perspective that looks like a very natural
progression
> <>in a fight.
> <>
> <> Here are a few historical images that display a very similar use or
> <>result of a leg grab in fighting
> <>
> <> From a German manual known as 'Goliath' (MS 2020) is a multi-weapon
> <>fechtbuch (fightbook) whose chapters correspond closely with the
"Danzig"
> <>fechtbuch of 1452 (MS 1449).
> <>http://www.schielhau.org/images/151.jpg
> <>
> <> A German grappling manual by Hans Wurm from apx 1505.
> <> http://www.thearma.org/pdf/Wurm/04b.jpg
> <> http://www.thearma.org/pdf/Wurm/04a.jpg
> <>
> <> Another German fechtbuch known as Codex Wallerstein from 1470
> <> http://www.thearma.org/Manuals/40.jpg
> <> http://www.thearma.org/Manuals/39.jpg
> <> http://www.thearma.org/Manuals/63.jpg
> <> http://www.thearma.org/Manuals/79.jpg
> <> http://www.thearma.org/Manuals/98.jpg
> <>
> <> the list could go on for days.
> <> I would just find it suprising that this would be a display for
> <>submission when from a biomechanical standpoint it's a very strategic
and
> <>martialy sound offensive technique. If the 'captive' in the K2352 image
> <>pulls up on his opponents leg and takes one agressive step forward and
to
> <>his left, the 'captor' in going to be flat on his back. The curiosity
> <>rises :)
> <> -Allen
> <>
> <>Justin Kerr wrote:
> <> v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} o\:*
> <>{behavior:url(#default#VML);} w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} .shape
> <>{behavior:url(#default#VML);} For your information, if you
> <>type the word warriors into the look for bar you will probably find many
> <>more images that will be of interest.
> <> As a side note to K2352, in reference to the warrior holding his
captors
> <>leg; we assumed this position was a Maya way of saying "time out" or "I
> <>give up" meaning the struggle was over for him and he accepts his fate.
> <> Justin
> <>
> <>
> <>---------------------------------
> <>
> <> From: Allen Johnson [mailto:allenj456 at yahoo.com]
> <>Sent: Friday, August 04, 2006 10:18 AM
> <>To: Justin Kerr
> <>Subject: RE: [Aztlan] Captives and Hair Pulling
> <>
> <>
> <> Thank you so much for pointing these out to me! There is some great
> <>info here...
> <>
> <>
> <>
> <> K680- As I see it, that is a depiction of a freshly decapitated head.
> <>Or is that what you were implying and I just didn't pick it up? however
> <>that is a good image as there are 3 more captives trussed up at the feet
> <>of a dignitary as I described before.
> <>
> <>
> <>
> <> K2206- Now this one is interesting. Approaching this from a martial
> <>arts standpoint its got some really curious things. In both cases, the
> <>'captives' are still in possession of their weapons. The fellow on the
> <>left has his spear angled down and pass his opponent. (the 'captor' has
> <>his feet and lower body turned away- possible dodge of the initial spear
> <>thrust?) If this is a literal happening he still would be able to mount
a
> <>counterattack if further action was not taken by the captor.
> <>
> <> The 'captive' on the right actually seems to be in a better
> <>position than his 'captor'! He has seized the haft of his opponents
spear
> <>and appears to be in the process of giving a hard downward hack with his
> <>axe. The 'captor's' feet and lower body are actually turned away from
his
> <>opponent- from my martial arts experience this looks very much like
> <>someone preparing to try and dodge an incoming blow when they are
> <>restrained from a full traverse. (He could drop his spear, let go of his
> <>opponents hair and run, thus avoiding the axe cut but that would leave
the
> <>other guy with 2 weapons and the initiative)
> <>
> <>
> <>
> <> K2352- Fantastic image of grappling in the middle! The 'captor'
> <>apparently had his right arm seized by his opponent. It's probable that
> <>the 'captive' then shot in for the leg grab (this technique is VERY
common
> <>in almost all martial arts ancient and modern. Asian, medieval and
> <>Renaissance Europe, even today's Olympic wrestling and mixed martial
arts
> <>fights). At this point, it appears that the 'captor' scooped his
opponent
> <>under the arm and pull him in and around his back into the lock that
> <>appears on the vase. Leaving his left hand free for the hair grab.
> <>Brilliant image there!
> <>
> <> The parade of captive on the right side of the image show the hair
> <>pull and a grip on the right elbow as a means of control. This makes
> <>perfect sense in a martial arts perspective. A large bulk of grappling
> <>techniques are centered on controlling the opponents elbow. This
position
> <>they are in is a very difficult one to get out of with a skilled captor.
> <>
> <>
> <>
> <> K7516- I have nothing to add to your comments on this one. It would
> <>seem to be fairly apparent that he's about to get rocked :)
> <>
> <>
> <>
> <> Thanks again!
> <>
> <> I would love to hear any other comments or interpretations others
> <>might have on these.
> <>
> <> -Allen
> <>
> <>Justin Kerr wrote:
> <>
> <> Dear Allen,
> <>There are at least four specific images in the Maya vase Database that
> <>relate to your question.
> <>K680. Although there is not much body to be seen, the executioner is
> <>holding
> <>onto the poor fellow's hair.
> <>K2206. A battle scene from the highlands with 2 captives being held by
> <>their
> <>hair.
> <>K2352. Probably another version of the same battle with 3 captives held
by
> <>their hair. Note that the hair of the captives is cut short, one of the
> <>humiliation techniques.
> <>K7516. The captive is being held by his hair as executioners prepare to
> <>beat
> <>him (probably to death) with stones.
> <>For FAMSI
> <>Justin Kerr
> <>
> <>
> <>
> <>-----Original Message-----
> <>From: aztlan-bounces at lists.famsi.org [mailto:aztlan-
> <>bounces at lists.famsi.org]
> <>On Behalf Of Allen Johnson
> <>Sent: Thursday, August 03, 2006 2:07 PM
> <>To: aztlan at lists.famsi.org
> <>Subject: [Aztlan] Captives and Hair Pulling
> <>
> <>Whenever there are depictions of prisoners of war in Aztec iconography
> <>they
> <>are usually either trussed up (usually at the feel of a dignitary) or
> <>being
> <>held by their captor by a tuff of hair at the top of their heads. With
> <>this
> <>hair pulling... Has anyone come across anything that would suggest that
> <>this is a method in which these captives were actually taken? There is
> <>some
> <>value to hair pulling as a martial technique, but is it really
practical?
> <>Or is it a symbolic depiction of humiliating ones opponent?
> <>
> <>Many thanks,
> <>Allen Johnson
> <>
> <>
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