[Aztlan] K2352

[Allen Johnson]

Thank you for that lead.  I'll certainly be looking into it.  Do you know if the articles you are refering to are in her book 'Ecstatic Trance: New Ritual Body Postures'?
  Thanks,
  Allen

Carolyn Tate <carolyn.tate at ttu.edu> wrote:
  Dear Allen,
Felicitas Goodman has published some articles dealing with poses of Olmec
figures as related to shamanic practices. It's fair to say that there was a
supernatural component of warfare in Mesoamerica that drew upon such
experiences, so this may be an avenue that should not be ignored.

Carolyn Tate


On 8/7/06 2:00 PM, "Allen Johnson" wrote:

> Yes Sam, you may ;)
> I agree that with as much schooling and as much first hand knowledge as
> these people had to violent encounters, they would easily know if an artist
> knew what he was doing. I have noticed in my few years with studying and
> training in various European martial art and then cross training and
> competing with various other martial arts forms (mostly Asian) that alot of
> the base techniques and especially grappling is markedly similar. In my
> opinion, the reason is that we are all human beings and working with the same
> tool as it were in this reguard. There are only so many ways you can use this
> fleshy tool to effectivley fight another one. To those that study and use it
> to great effectivness, all seem to arrive with the same basic techniques. I
> have a collegue who is in the US military and did a comparative study on the
> techniques they teach in their Army Combatives classes and how identical they
> were to German Medieval texts. It was astonishing. So alot of my ideas and
> theories come from, what biomechanically works effectivley.
> 
> As far as native American martial arts go, I have done little to no research
> into that area. As far as I know, there are few who profess to practice and
> train in historic Native American fighting styles. Many will show you the
> finer points of tomahawk fighting and throwing and things like that, but what
> do they back up their ideas with. i dont know...havent looked into it. But
> it certainly would be a worth while approach.
> 
> -Allen
> 
> 
> Sam Edgerton wrote:
> Hi Allen (if I may): What's really interesting here, for me anyway as a
> hobbyist sports historian, is that not only does warrior A in K2352 know
> the proper wrestling holds (I'm especially impressed that he knew to grab
> B below the knee, not above the knee joint as so may neophyte grapplers
> try, only to have the opponents easily shake free) but the Maya painter
> surely knew his wrestling too - which means as you suggest that there must
> have been a Maya training school, from which A learned the right tricks
> while B is caught off-guard. Beginners always try for a choke hold which
> looks great in phony pro wrestling, but will utterly fail and get you
> immediately pinned if you try it on an experienced free-style (Olympic)
> wrestler. Wrestling, after all, is one of the oldest if not the oldest
> one-on-one sports, not only in the classical Western world, but very much
> so (and still practiced still today) in Asia from Iran across southern
> Russia through the various "-stans" around Siberia and China, the very
> place where American Indians were supposed to have hailed from some 13000
> years ago before they crossed the Bering Straits. Wouldn't it be
> fascinating if they brought some of these ancient wrestling moves with them
> to the Americas?
> Sam Edgerton
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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