[Aztlan] "The Maya had no Wheel...."

[bertram perkel]

It is a basic tenet of the scientific method that the absence of  
proof can never support a hypothesis that anything exists or does not  
exist. In simplest terms "wishing does not make it so." Fortunately,  
in archaeology "pure speculation " is rarely found in scholarly work.  
All of the speculative archaeological work with which I am familiar  
has presented conjectures arising from some otherwise ambiguous  
extant "facts." You ask that we seriously consider your speculation  
even tho that there is no factual base upon which it is built. You  
will need more than that to build your theory.
Bertram Perkel

On Aug 12, 2006, at 8:27 PM, kim Goldsmith wrote:

> Unfortunately a lot of archaeology is "pure
> speculation".  Insofar as not having representations,
> you might take into consideration a place like
> Teotihacan where we have less that .01 of 1% of the
> mural paintings remaining (and less than 10% of the
> site actually explored).  And the murals that ARE
> still here rarely represent buildings or things like
> that at all.  The iconography is State propaganda, and
> it is repetative symbolism that normally represents
> human, animal or geometric forms.
>
> Let me reiterate - - I'm talking about what logic
> deems as probable and coherent, NOT pure speculation
> as you suggest.
>
> Regards,
>
> KIM
>
> --- bertram perkel <bperkel29 at comcast.net> wrote:
>
>> I would suggest that if the wheel was employed in
>> any meaningful way
>> for work or transport there would have have been
>> some some
>> representation of that "fact" in the known text or
>> figures found on
>> stele, wall panels or vases or....! Since no
>> reference of that sort
>> has been found I do not think that, aside from pure
>> speculation,
>> there is any support for your hypothosis.
>> Bertram Perkel
>>
>> On Aug 12, 2006, at 6:04 PM, kim Goldsmith wrote:
>>
>>> I'm with Robert Evans and company.  I think one of
>> the
>>> strongest indications we have that the prehispanic
>>> cultures did indeed have the wheel come in the
>> form of
>>> the ceramic wheeled figurines.
>>>
>>> I've been studying the clay figurines here at
>>> Teotihuacan for over 25 years now, so I am very
>>> familiar with these little critters (they are
>> usually
>>> animal effigies).  They have four wheels and a
>> space
>>> for two axles; you put a string through them, pull
>>> them around and they work just fine.
>>>
>>> In my opinion it is simply ridiculous to look at
>> the
>>> complex technology that these civilizations had
>> and
>>> then think that they could figure out the wheel on
>> a
>>> "mini-scale" but never employ it to help haul some
>> of
>>> the stone, dirt, etc. around!
>>>
>>> Not to mention that, if the wheeled figurines turn
>> out
>>> to be toys for childern (and there was good
>> evidence
>>> of that in a burial uncovered by Sergio Gomez at
>> the
>>> Atetelco area of Teo), isn't it true that normally
>> the
>>> children's toys are imitating what the adults
>> already
>>> have??
>>>
>>> People ask me why we don't flat out find a
>> life-sized
>>> wheel here at Teo.  My answer to them is that, to
>>> start off with, the climate in this area is poor
>> for a
>>> strong preservation of organic material (such as
>>> wood).  Plus, you are dealing with a city here
>> which
>>> has been literally paved over for nearly 24 full
>>> kilometers, with additional deforestation outside
>> of
>>> the immediate urban center.  With the eventual
>>> collapse of the city, as some of the initial
>>> population stayed behind and additional scavanger
>>> cultures came in, ANY wood that would have been
>> found
>>> laying around would have been reused to its
>> utmost, as
>>> well as used in fires for cooking, etc.
>>>
>>> Lack of archaeological evidence does NOT
>> automatically
>>> mean that something didn't happen or didn't exist.
>>> Every time I consult for a t.v. show or give a
>> tour, I
>>> try hard to impress that upon people.  In the case
>> of
>>> the wheel, I think that logic and common sense
>> would
>>> take us a long, long way.
>>>
>>> Respectfully,
>>>
>>> Kim C. Goldsmith, Ph.D.
>>> Teotihuacan
>>> Mexico
>>>
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