[Aztlan] 13 Baktun Date

Sun Dec 17 09:18:35 CST 2006

Those who are not familiar with more that preliminaries of the Maya calendar
system must be careful when selecting "THE correct" correlation
coefficient.  I think that knowing how the factor i8s used and not what it
is.  The 'correct' factor has ranged   factor has had a range between 400
and 900 THOUSAND days and there are still folks who are promoting factors
different than 584,283 and 584,285 and those folks are promoting theirs with
the same vigor that John Major Jenkins promotes/argues for his.

All make their statements with equal 'authority'  Statement like:

snip..

"If you'd like a more detailed and definitive assessment of the underlying
factors in the debate between the two correlations that are two days apart,
see: "

end snip

Appear to be 'definitive' and scholarly in how they are stated.  It is
scholarly to give references but it would have been more so if mr Jenkins
said:
"If you'd like a more detailed and definitive assessment of the underlying
factors in the debate between the two correlations that are two days apart,
see MY: "
Citing yourself autonomously may have been by error but I feel the need to
point it out.

I went and checked the first reference and knew that I had been there before
and the arguments are mixed with 'fact'.   Take this statement for example:
"Four Ahau" was the first day of the current 13-baktun era of the Maya Long
Count calendar, back in 3114 B.C.; it is also the last day, December 21st,
2012 A.D.Here are some facts besides the ones mentioned:

   - Four Ahau" was the first day of the current 13-baktun era of the
   Maya Long Count calendar
   - Any Tzolkin coefficient  will repeat after a multiple of 13 days
   - Any Tzolkin Day Name will repeat after a multiple of 13 days
   - Any Tzolkin coefficient and Day Name will repeat after a multiple of
   13 and 20
   - 13 Baktuns is both a multiple of 13 and 20

So far It is not a stretch to draw the conclusion that:
"Four Ahau" was the first day of the current 13-baktun era of the Maya Long
Count calendar; it is also the last day.
This is straight math.  The extra stuff:

   - back in 3114 B.C.
   - December 21st, 2012 A.D.

Depends on what the coefficient is and yet it is placed in with the math
facts to "lend credibility" to the authors position.

To me, 1 or 2 days will not break the archaeological records.  The
difference is moot.  Knowing the mechanics will permit each student to judge
the arguments.  So far I have not found the question of 1 or 2 days to be
much of an intellectual problem worth the extended effort to argue one way
or the other.  I have more interest examining the discussions of those
offering much different coefficients and their arguments.

On 12/16/06, John Major Jenkins <kahib at ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>
> To those involved in this thread and anyone interested in the end date /
> correlation question:
>
> Hi,
> If you'd like a more detailed and definitive assessment of the
> underlying factors in the debate between the two correlations that are
> two days apart, see:
>
> http://www.alignment2012.com/fap3.html
> http://www.alignment2012.com/fap9.html
> http://www.alignment2012.com/app5.htm
> http://alignment2012.com/scheletoGardner.html
>
> In a nutshell, the end date is December 21, 2012. The earlier
> correlation that results in December 23, 2012 was corrected when
> ethnographic material on the surviving 260-day calendar become available
> in the 1930s and 40s. The logic is that the surviving day-count evinces
> an unbroken continuity with the Classic Period count, and projecting the
> surviving count forward to December of 2012 should result in 4 Ahau (or
> the equivalent day-sign in the Quiche Maya language, 4 Hunahpu) falling
> on the correct end date. Thus, a separate confirmation of which
> correlation best fits is possible. The test results in 4 Ahau falling on
> December 21, 2012. Thus the 584283 correlation is supported. The
> arguments of Floyd Lounsbury, who revived the earlier Dec 23rd
> correlation, have not withstood analysis. His date, however, although
> erroneous, has great currency because his student Linda Schele repeated
> it and used it her books. Michael Coe followed, and so on. The issue is
> not considered relevant to many Mayanists. But for the sake of clarity,
> the 584283 correlation (13.0.0.0.0 = December 21, 2012) remains by far
> the most feasible of all correlations proposed, including Lounsbury's.
> When confronted with the ethnographic evidence that put his correlation
> two days out of line with the surviving day-count, he suggested that
> there must have been a two-day shift sometime just before the conquest.
> Other scholars have commented that this scenario of a coordinated
> cross-country shift is almost impossible to imagine, but what this means
> is that Lounsbury's correlation would have to be shifted back 2 days for
> all post-conquest dates, resulting in the end date falling on December
> 21 anyway. So, from this vantage, there isn't even a debate, or a
> practical difference: both point to December 21, 2012.
>
> John Major Jenkins
> http://Alignment2012.com <http://alignment2012.com/>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: aztlan-bounces at lists.famsi.org
> [mailto:aztlan-bounces at lists.famsi.org] On Behalf Of mario malo
> Sent: Friday, December 15, 2006 10:54 AM
> To: Aztlan
> Subject: [Aztlan] 13 Baktun Date
>
> Amigos:    I am setting a timer/clock for the end date of the 13 Baktun
> cycle of the Mayan long count/great cycle, but i keep reading two dates.
> Is it December 21 or the 23,  2012? please help, M.F. Malo
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