[Aztlan] Itzamna, God N and Bakab

[Justin Kerr]

Dear Mike and Friends,

This question, and I would like to add, a good one, should unleash a very
long series of answers.

I would like to mention an incident of many years ago. I was sitting next to
Linda Schele at a dance performance in Israel. We were told that the next
dance would represent a Hasidic (very orthodox) wedding; I grinned and told
Linda that the 4 bacabs would come out and hold up the sky. Linda, in her
usual way told me, in language I won't repeat, that was a bit of nonsense.
However when 4 men come on stage and held up a canopy on 4 poles, Linda was
quite taken aback.

I am certainly not trying to make a case for cross cultural connections; I
merely wish to suggest that it is necessary to define which deities we are
discussing and how those deities are defined by the people who made them. 
I think it is important to realize that the very late document, The Dresden
Codex, (from which the alphabet deities derive) does not generally match the
images that appear on the Classic period ceramics. There are similarities to
be sure, but I do not believe that anyone can show an image of the bacabs on
any Classic ceramics. If Chak or God N are bacabs, their behavior on
ceramics does not match any action of holding up the sky. If we look at the
behavior of the ax bearing Chak, then we see, rather than supporting the
temple, he is breaking the temple down (see for example K2068 and K2772).
I believe that we still have a long way to go in understanding all or even
part of the deity's functions in the Classic period.

How for example do we interpret the image on K3124 where we seem to have an
image of God N and a juvenile version of the same? Why for example is it
that God N is the deity (in the Highlands) who is humiliated after the
defeat of the Lords of the Otherworld and it is God L in the lowlands? (K578
and K2847 [Highlands], K1560 [lowlands].  
This is certainly not the last word.

Justin Kerr
 
--Original Message-----
From: aztlan-bounces at lists.famsi.org [mailto:aztlan-bounces at lists.famsi.org]
On Behalf Of Mike Geubel
Sent: Wednesday, December 26, 2007 3:34 PM
To: Aztlan at lists.famsi.org
Subject: [Aztlan] Itzamna, God N and Bakab

Hello,

This is my first post on the Aztlan mailing list. I have a question about
God N:
Linda Schele says that the four God N deties are equal to the four Bacabs.

Karin Bassie also wrote in her document 'Maya Creator Gods' on page 30: "God
N was a Bakab, but as David Stuart has noted neither T1014 nor T64 ever
substitutes with any of the numerous examples of the pa signs." Later in
this document Karrin Bassie says that God N and God D are the same deity:
Itzamna.

Because of this I conclude that the four Bakabs are manifestations of
Itzamna, and because of that also the four Chaaks are manifestations of him.
Somewhere (I don't know the source anymore) I have red that the Bakabs or
Chaaks are Itzamna's sons, so they don't match up.

And are the Chaaks, Bakabs and Pawahtun the same?

Can somebody help me with this please?

Kind regards,
Mike Geubel
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