[Aztlan] Re Subject: New terminology - Ik' B'ul (was Black Jaguars)

[Brian Stross]

Also recall the  'tigre frijolillo'  referent for the   Chol    ik' 
bo'lay    (rather than prieto or negro or oscuro ) which Jorge 
pointed out very nicely.    There may be additional motivation for 
the selection of the attribute in some connection with beans.
Note too that u / o  variation is not uncommon  (e.g. as in 
Nahuatl,  or even between Hebrew  pol  'beans' and Arabic ful  'beans' )

Brian S





At 01:46 PM 02/15/2007, Michael J. Fitzpatrick wrote:
>  Might "black bean" refer to cacao beans, which are sometimes a very dark,
>almost blackish brown color?
>
>
>Michael J. Fitzpatrick
>152 North Third St., #800
>San Jose, CA 95112
>(408) 288-8013
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>Fitzesq at earthlink.net
>
>  "Some explanations of a crime are not explanations: they're part of the
>crime.": Olavo de Cavarlho
>
>
>Message: 8
>Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2007 07:57:45 -0800 (PST)
>From: Mike McBride <yaxchilan1 at yahoo.com>
>Subject: [Aztlan] New terminology - Ik' B'ul  (was Black Jaguars)
>To: Aztlan at lists.famsi.org
>Message-ID: <628599.62000.qm at web31514.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>
>Interesting to see how my original post concerning a translation for Ik'
>B'olay, the Fer-de-lance, has taken off in some very interesting threads. A
>good comment on the varied interests and expertise of this list.
>The underlying reason I originally posted the question was my ongoing
>interest in a character, Ik' B'ul, that shows up on many Ik' Site ceramic
>vases. This
>person(?) is usually in the name sting of the Fat Cacique, whose titles
>include (among others) Yajaw-te'
>K'inich U-chan Ik' B'ul. Roughly, Great Sun Tree/Lineage Lord, the
>Captor/Protector (of) Ik' B'ul (Black Bean).
>
>When I first heard the term Ik' B'olay at the recent Tulane Maya Conference
>I immediately wondered if there was a linguistic connection between the 2
>terms.
>Reason being that the literal translation of Ik' B'ul (Black Bean) seemed
>strange for a supposedly high-ranking captive or protected person.  Hence my
>question if the words B'ul and B'olay have linguistic similarities.
>
>Any input of who Ik' B'ul may have been - does this name show up any where
>else? Or differences in translations are most appreciated.
>Thanks
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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