[Aztlan] Turtle and tortoises

Tue Jul 3 23:58:17 CDT 2007

Folks:

  The  Turtle information is important. First if it was part of the Summer Triangle (I believe the Three Hearthstones and the Three Marias, goddesses of Pulque and childbirth), then we have a breeding ground, or birthplace of the stars. BIrth takes place with moans, groans and screams of pain, on earth and apparently in the heavens. since the Turtle is also associated with thunder.  Then on  p 44 of the Nuttall in the left top corner, there is a "god" speaking fromt the heavens, and people can see the ball court (of the sky) in the river below.

  Things like the above are illustrated on paper, the turtles on the House of the Turtles in Uxmal inform us that they are above the building (like in the Sky as a constellation that created music for some, words for others and a battle royal for still others or just plain thurnder) How many turtles are on the roof edges, Do they coincide with number of the stars in the Lyra formation? Each star is different in size, is that why the turtles on the building have different markings?

  R. H. Allen in Star Names, etc. tells us that one astronomer noted that part of Cygnus seems to be oddly filled with many many red and yellow stars. 

  (My Note: As if it had once been an oven refer to the birth of the Fifth Sun and the "oven of the Gods that two sacrificial "gods" were to enter, and they did so erratically as if in conflict or battle with a fire source, to become the Sun and the Moon) 

  I would think under those circumstances that such a "turtle: display  is not an ending of a katurn but the beginning of one. 

  Imagination? I doubt it. There are multiple "voice of god" expressions all around the world, multiple fire descriptions of major proportions also, many "suns" that burned the earth. Of the few mesoamerican codices that are available that seem to be legitimate, each detail such an event with very graphic picture battles and births.

  The battles of 8-Deer is also fascinating since he is in full regalia with nose piece and all in the Nuttal long before he, as a child coming of age, acquires the nosepiece or even has his first battle and conquest. He also visits the Sun god in the sky with a 39 day journey, the length of degrees for a full eclipse of the sun.

  Dea
    At Uxmal there is a building with external turtle sculpture decor known as,
of all things, the House of the Turtles.
http://mayaruins.com/uxmal/j1_1708.html

http://72.14.253.104/search?q=cache:xOTkGxeUaVQJ:www.buriedmirror.com/latest
/2007/05/14/maya-symbology-turtle/+uxmal+turtle&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=4&gl=us

Taube suggests that the turtle symbolism is associated with katun ending
periods.
http://links.jstor.org/sici?sici=0091-7710(198822)44%3A2%3C183%3AAPMKW%3E2.0
.CO%3B2-7

There are also several tortoise altars at Copan in Honduras.

Michael J. Fitzpatrick

D. M. Urquidi
  P. O. Box 49485
  Austin, Texas 78765
  http://www.mayalords.org  
  http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/ancientamericas/

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