[Aztlan] Toltec Standard Bearers
Diehl, Richard
rdiehl at as.ua.edu
Sun Oct 7 16:59:23 CDT 2007
In reply to Ed Dawson's query about the "Standard Bearer" sculptures at Tula (and Chichén Itza), I know of no evidence for how they actually were used. As far as I can tell, their functional designation is pure speculation.
Dick Diehl
-----Original Message-----
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Sent: Sunday, October 07, 2007 12:00 PM
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Subject: Aztlan Digest, Vol 23, Issue 6
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Today's Topics:
1. mirrored glyphs again (Randa Marhenke)
2. Mirrored glyphs again (Jorge P?rez de Lara)
3. Re: mirrored glyphs again (Justin Kerr)
4. Re: Reason & Origin for name "Atlantean" Columns (Mary K. Andrews)
5. Thanks RE: Info on Atlantean term (Helen R. Haines)
6. Re: Reason & Origin for name "Atlantean" Columns (Lalo)
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Message: 1
Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2007 17:01:54 -0700
From: Randa Marhenke <randa at armory.com>
Subject: [Aztlan] mirrored glyphs again
To: aztlan at lists.famsi.org
Message-ID: <200710061701.aa11895 at deepthought.armory.com>
I just thought of another one. Laxtunich Lintel 1. At least what Linda
Schele called Lintel 1,tho I think Berthold Riese called it something
else. What I'm referring to I think was/is in the Kimball Museum. I
thought Justin Kerr made a photo of it, I know Linda and John Montgomery
drew it--I'm sure it is on FAMSI somewhere, but I can't find it. I'm on
the road now, and fear the batteries will give out on the computer before
I finish this note. I'm sure Justin (Kerr) can refer people to a
drawing/photo of the lintel. Anyway, there are mirrored glyphs there, on
the middle horizontal strip of glyphs. I.e., all the middle strip is of
mirrored glyphs.
Please Justin, Help!!
Best wishes,
Randa (Marhenke)
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Sat, 06 Oct 2007 22:52:49 -0500
From: Jorge P?rez de Lara <jorgepl at estudioelias.com>
Subject: [Aztlan] Mirrored glyphs again
To: Aztlan <aztlan at lists.famsi.org>
Cc: aztlan at lists.famsi.org
Message-ID: <47085811.8080608 at estudioelias.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
The panel Randa is referring to can be found at the following url:
http://research.famsi.org/portfolio_hires.php?search=kimbell&date_added=&image=2823&display=8&rowstart=0
Jorge
Randa Marhenke wrote:
>I just thought of another one. Laxtunich Lintel 1. At least what Linda
>Schele called Lintel 1,tho I think Berthold Riese called it something
>else. What I'm referring to I think was/is in the Kimball Museum. I
>thought Justin Kerr made a photo of it, I know Linda and John Montgomery
>drew it--I'm sure it is on FAMSI somewhere, but I can't find it. I'm on
>the road now, and fear the batteries will give out on the computer before
>I finish this note. I'm sure Justin (Kerr) can refer people to a
>drawing/photo of the lintel. Anyway, there are mirrored glyphs there, on
>the middle horizontal strip of glyphs. I.e., all the middle strip is of
>mirrored glyphs.
>
>Please Justin, Help!!
>
>Best wishes,
>Randa (Marhenke)
>
>
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Sun, 07 Oct 2007 07:43:15 -0400
From: "Justin Kerr" <mayavase at verizon.net>
Subject: Re: [Aztlan] mirrored glyphs again
To: "'Randa Marhenke'" <randa at armory.com>, <aztlan at lists.famsi.org>
Message-ID: <001601c808d7$3fdd07a0$6701a8c0 at justnew>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Thanks, Jorge.
On the discussion of the reasons for the reversed glyphs, Linda Schele
offers; Blood of Kings p.226. ...The seat of his throne is carved with the
names and titles of the reigning Yaxchilan king, Shield Jaguar II, but the
glyphs are inscribed in reverse order, from right to left, PERHAPS TO NAME
HIM ON THE PANEL WITHOUT EMPHASIZING HIS AUTHORITY. (capitals mine)
Justin Kerr
-----Original Message-----
From: aztlan-bounces at lists.famsi.org [mailto:aztlan-bounces at lists.famsi.org]
On Behalf Of Randa Marhenke
Sent: Saturday, October 06, 2007 8:02 PM
To: aztlan at lists.famsi.org
Subject: [Aztlan] mirrored glyphs again
I just thought of another one. Laxtunich Lintel 1. At least what Linda
Schele called Lintel 1,tho I think Berthold Riese called it something
else. What I'm referring to I think was/is in the Kimball Museum. I
thought Justin Kerr made a photo of it, I know Linda and John Montgomery
drew it--I'm sure it is on FAMSI somewhere, but I can't find it. I'm on
the road now, and fear the batteries will give out on the computer before
I finish this note. I'm sure Justin (Kerr) can refer people to a
drawing/photo of the lintel. Anyway, there are mirrored glyphs there, on
the middle horizontal strip of glyphs. I.e., all the middle strip is of
mirrored glyphs.
Please Justin, Help!!
Best wishes,
Randa (Marhenke)
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------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Sat, 06 Oct 2007 22:23:43 -0400
From: "Mary K. Andrews" <xandrews at verizon.net>
Subject: Re: [Aztlan] Reason & Origin for name "Atlantean" Columns
To: "Aztlan Lists" <aztlan at lists.famsi.org>
Message-ID: <002301c80889$14f8f1a0$0201a8c0 at PAPACOMPUTER>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
This may be a stretch, since it is mostly mythical, and only two of many possible explanations of the so-called "Pillars of Hercules" and the location of Atlantis, though it might be relevant to the discussion about Atlantean columns.
In the ancient world the Pillars of Hercules were widely believed to be the portal to the Atlantic Ocean, with one pillar being the Rock of Gibraltar, and the other a peak near the coast of northernmost Morocco or on the island of Ceuta. Such a peak could be part of a spur of the Atlas Mountains.
Another variation on this theme, from an account by Plato, would have the location of Atlantis "beyond the Pillars of Hercules." There are different translations and interpretations of this account. It has been interpreted by some to mean that the pillars may have been between two mountainous islands in the Aegean Sea (possibly Ios and Sikinos?) -- that may have been located between the Greek mainland and a Minoan Atlantis. Arguments have been made by archaeologists and historians in modern times that Atlantis may have been Thera (or Santorini), Crete, or some other island in the Aegean with remains of the Minoan culture.
Either way, the imagined mythical pillars or columns - or atlantes - framed a portal to an Atlantean world.
Tony Andrews
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Message: 5
Date: Sun, 7 Oct 2007 11:14:34 -0400
From: "Helen R. Haines" <hrhaines at ca.inter.net>
Subject: [Aztlan] Thanks RE: Info on Atlantean term
To: <aztlan at lists.famsi.org>
Message-ID: <73198B2278F743BD9A7A52DC507861A8 at Obsidian>
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Dear Listos
Thank you very much for the information re: the term Atlantean. I was
clearly researching down the wrong path!
I wish everyone a Happy (Canadian) Thanksgiving!
Cheers,
Helen
H.R. Haines, Ph.D.
Research Associate
Trent University Archaeological Research Centre
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Sun, 7 Oct 2007 10:18:40 -0500
From: "Lalo" <lalo60 at tx.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Aztlan] Reason & Origin for name "Atlantean" Columns
To: "Aztlan" <aztlan at lists.famsi.org>
Message-ID: <002901c808f5$5766e530$6501a8c0 at claude032j30t5>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Thanks to all who have shared perspectives on this intriguing topic.
I am equally interested in anything listeros have to say about the naming of the other two objects in this photo from Tula: http://www.dallas.net/~lalo/tula2a.html , especially the "Standard Bearer" in the middle. Was that designation based simply on speculation (about the small hole around which he wraps his arms) or was it based on recognition? Are there European standard supports that include standing anthropomorphic forms?
Ed Dawson
------------------------------
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