[Aztlan] Chac The Rain God

Wed Jan 2 07:16:42 CST 2008

Bertrans and all,

There are two points to be made. One, it has been shown by Linda Schele,
Michael Coe (personal communication) and others that the majority of the
great masks on temple facades from the Early Classic to the Puuc are not
Chak but various styles of the Principal Bird Deity. This then infers a
commitment to Itzamnah; as in some cases the two are interchangeable. See
for example K3863 or 7821.

Two. The case of the feathered serpent is complex. There are many images of
beings with feathers (see 5042 or 5030) but how they relate to the Very Late
Classic feathered serpent is not quite clear. As a matter of fact, we will
be discussing this idea during one of our workshop sessions in Austin
(February 2008).

Happy New Year to all,

Justin

  _____  

From: Bertrand Lobjois [mailto:blobjois at gmail.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, January 01, 2008 8:11 PM
To: Justin Kerr
Cc: mario malo; Aztlan
Subject: Re: [Aztlan] Chac The Rain God

Good evening, Mr Kerrr.

A dictionnary doesn't lie... You're right when you say that Baudez is
playing with words. maybe for a good reason. 

One of Baudez's clues is that we can't any building made for one particular
god. He notably "kills" the interpretation of the so-called Chaac masks in
teratomorphs temples. To him, they are representations of the Terrestrial
Monster, a supernatural creature, not a god. 

But considering the Feathered Serpent in Teotihuacan in the same period,
would you consider it as a god ?

I quote another phrase of his article : "Jamas se ha encontrado alguna
estatua de piedra o de ceramica dedicada a un ser sobrenatural"... 

What would you mind ? I will be very pleased

Justin, may I ask you something about the Feathered Serpent in Maya Ceramics
? Is it representated or not ? I've seen some ceramics with serpents designs
but I'm convinced they are feathered serpents. 

Thank you for your patience... ;)

Bertrand LOBJOIS
Universidad de Monterrey

2008/1/1, Justin Kerr <mayavase at verizon.net>: 

Dear Friends,
I am afraid Claude is playing with words. Below is the entry from the 
Merriam-Webster dictionary
Main Entry:deity
Pronunciation:*d*-*-t*, *d*-
Function:noun
Inflected Form:plural -ties
Etymology:Middle English deitee, from Old French deit*, from Late Latin
deitat-, deitas, from Latin deus god; akin to Old English T*w, god of war, 
Latin divus god, dies day, Greek dios heavenly, Sanskrit deva heavenly, god
Date:14th century

1 a : the rank or essential nature of a god : DIVINITY  b capitalized   :
GOD 1, SUPREME BEING
2 : a god or goddess *the deities of ancient Greece* 
3 : one exalted or revered as supremely good or powerful
Justin

-----Original Message-----
From: aztlan-bounces at lists.famsi.org [mailto:
<mailto:aztlan-bounces at lists.famsi.org>  aztlan-bounces at lists.famsi.org]
On Behalf Of Bertrand Lobjois
Sent: Tuesday, January 01, 2008 4:31 PM
To: mario malo
Cc: Aztlan
Subject: Re: [Aztlan] Chac The Rain God

About Maya gods, have a look on Claude Baudez's publication in the 
last Arqueologia
Mexicana edition. According to him, the Mayas didn't have gods but deities
or divine creatures...

Bertrand LOBJOIS
Universidad de Monterrey

2007/12/26, mario malo < <mailto:troycabo at yahoo.com>  troycabo at yahoo.com>:
>
> Listeros,  Chac: The Rain God,   A Visually striking, Suspenseful,
> Hypnotic film! I found this DVD film at my Library in Sacramento, Ca.,
The
> caption reads:  A cult film from the 1970s, lost for years and now newly 
> restored, Chac: The Rain God is based on the ritual and legends from the
> Popul Vuh, as well as Tzeltal and Mayan stories. This gorgeous film, shot
in
> the Chiapas region of Mexico by Chilean director Rolando Klein, focuses on

a
> small Tzeltal village during a terrible drought. Desperate for relief,
> thirteen men set out on a quest to save their people from starvation. They
> seek a solitary Diviner who lives in the mountains and knows the ways of 
the
> Ancients; they hope that he can summon Chac, the Rain God. The Diviner
takes
> them far from their own land on a strange journey - a trek that challenges
> their beliefs and even their own sanity.  A wonderful film,   Mario F. 
Malo
>
> ---------------------------------
> Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.  Try it
> now.
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