[Aztlan] preservation question

Wed Jul 9 12:06:31 CDT 2008

I've sent queries to local museums, but am wondering if any listeros might
be able to steer me in the right direction regarding a preservation
question.
I am writing my dissertation on Mexican Indigenous Cultural Production and
am temporarily in possession of four codices written / painted by a Nahua
artist (Idelfonso Maya) who asked that I digitalize the books.  I will be
returning them to him in August, and would like to deliver them in a manner
which might ensure/assist in their preservation.  The books are painted on a
fabric and tied to goat skin.  They are several decades old and already
showing the effects of being stored in the hot/humid Huasteca region.
Could anyone suggest a contact or resource for me?  I'm in Minnesota.

Kelly McDonough
University of Minnesota - Twin Cities
Department of Spanish & Portuguese Studies
612/626-7784
mcdo0030 at umn.edu

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Sent: Wednesday, July 09, 2008 12:00 PM
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Subject: Aztlan Digest, Vol 32, Issue 9

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Today's Topics:

   1. Re: "SECRET CAVE" under Teotihuacan Sun Pyramid (Katherine Reece)
   2. NATIONAL GEOGRAPHIC VIDEO ON MOCHE TOMB AT UCUPE (michael ruggeri)
   3. FROM ERIK BOOT-STOLEN COLUMBIAN ANCIENT ART OBJECTS	RETURNED
      (michael ruggeri)
   4. POSSIBLE CONFUSION OVER TEOTIHUACAN TUNNELS OR CAVES
      (michael ruggeri)
   5. 4 CEREMONIAL VESSELS FOUND CUSCO (michael ruggeri)
   6. Maya, Mesoamerica (Randa Marhenke)
   7. Maya, Mesoamerica--Pre-Script (Randa Marhenke)
   8. Re: POSSIBLE CONFUSION OVER TEOTIHUACAN TUNNELS OR CAVES
      (John B. Carlson)
   9. THE TUNNELS UNDER THE PYRAMID OF THE SUN (michael ruggeri)

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Message: 1
Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2008 10:36:23 -0500
From: "Katherine Reece" <kat at hallofmaat.com>
Subject: Re: [Aztlan] "SECRET CAVE" under Teotihuacan Sun Pyramid
To: <aztlan at lists.famsi.org>
Message-ID: <02ad01c8e110$6f81c100$6601a8c0 at kat2>
Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="iso-8859-1"

Bertrand is also correct about the unfortunate, but understandable, 
errors that some reporters make. On the flip side, some reporters have 
VERY selective hearing and don't hear any of the 'woulds', 'coulds', or 
'according to current evidences' that we use so much and splash flashy 
statements in their articles that don't reflect archaeological knowledge.

Ben Carter

Then there are reporters who go for the sensational.  In Egyptologist Kent
Weeks' book The Lost Tomb he writes about speaking to a reporter about his
rediscovery of Tomb KV5 in the Valley of the Kings in Egypt. While
discussing the tomb, Weeks mentioned that its pillared hall was one of the
largest ever found. The reporter asked Weeks if he found any colored balls.
For obvious reasons Weeks was confused. The reporter then asked if billiard
halls were common in ancient Egypt. Weeks tried to correct the reporter who
commented: 'Billiard hall? Pillared hall? What difference does it make? Who
cares? Besides, it makes a better story'.

Kat Reece

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Message: 2
Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2008 14:42:18 -0500
From: michael ruggeri <michaelruggeri at mac.com>
Subject: [Aztlan] NATIONAL GEOGRAPHIC VIDEO ON MOCHE TOMB AT UCUPE
To: aztlan at lists.famsi.org
Message-ID: <5C3B70EB-31DD-4F01-96AC-28E3EA6B4417 at mac.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed

Listeros,

National Geographic has posted a short video on the Moche tomb at Ucupe;

Mike Ruggeri

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2008/07/080708-discovery- 
video-ap.html

Tiny URL;
http://tinyurl.com/6kglw3

Mike Ruggeri's Ancient Andean World
http://tinyurl.com/2o79jy

Mike Ruggeri's Andean Archaeology News and Links
http://community-2.webtv.net/Topiltzin-2091/MikeRuggerisAndean/ 
index.html

Andean and Amazonian Archaeology Discussion Group
http://tinyurl.com/2fnzpm

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Message: 3
Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2008 19:20:04 -0500
From: michael ruggeri <michaelruggeri at mac.com>
Subject: [Aztlan] FROM ERIK BOOT-STOLEN COLUMBIAN ANCIENT ART OBJECTS
	RETURNED
To: aztlan at lists.famsi.org
Message-ID: <651578E9-5281-47A7-A18B-28D1AD9113EC at mac.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;	charset=ISO-8859-1;	format=flowed

FROM ERIK BOOT

In todays edition of the Mexican newspaper El Universal
(http://www.eluniversal.com.mx/notas/520985.html):

Devolver? EU a Colombia 66 piezas prehisp?nicas - Fueron sacadas
ilegalmente del pa?s sudamericano y entre los objetos se encuentran
figuras er?ticas y vasijas con forma de animales

EFE - El Universal - Miami Martes 08 de julio de 2008
14:42 Estados Unidos entreg? hoy al Gobierno colombiano 66 piezas
precolombinas, incluyendo 16 esmeraldas, que fueron extra?das
ilegalmente de la Naci?n andina y decomisadas en el sur del estado de
Florida.

La recuperaci?n de las piezas arqueol?gicas colombianas tra?das de
contrabando a EU se logr? durante una investigaci?n efectuada por la
Oficina de Inmigraci?n y Control de Aduanas (ICE) y el alguacil del
condado de Broward, al norte de Miami.

Los artefactos recuperados provienen de las culturas Nari?o y Tairona
que datan de hasta 500 a?os antes de Cristo, seg?n anunciaron hoy en
conferencia de prensa las autoridades de EU.

Anthony Mangione, agente especial a cargo de la oficina de
investigaciones del ICE, inform? en la conferencia de prensa que en
septiembre del 2005 se arrest? a Ugo Bagnato, venezolano con
ciudadan?a italiana, a quien le confiscaron las piezas.

Bagnato se declar? culpable de vender y recibir mercanc?a robada y fue
sentenciado a cumplir 17 meses de prisi?n. En julio del 2007 las
autoridades lo deportaron a Italia.

Alexander Alonso, asistente de Mangione, revel? a Efe que mientras
Bagnato cumpl?a con su condena, el Instituto Gemol?gico de Am?rica,
con sede en San Diego (California), se comunic? con ICE para informar
que el acusado les hab?a dado unas esmeraldas para su tasaci?n.

Tras esta informaci?n y un estudio de las gemas realizado por la
Universidad de Maine, las autoridades pudieron establecer que las
esmeraldas proced?an de la misma fuente que los objetos precolombinos.

"Cada esmeralda tiene agujeros peque?os que indican que fueron
taladradas con el prop?sito de crear un collar", se precis?.

El acta de repatriaci?n de las piezas fue firmada por Diego Herrera,
director del Instituto de Antropolog?a de Colombia, y por Mangione de
ICE.

La recuperaci?n de este patrimonio cultural se efectu? de acuerdo al
Memorando de Entendimiento suscrito entre Colombia y Estados Unidos
que proh?be la importaci?n, exportaci?n y transferencia de material
arqueol?gico de culturas prehisp?nicas.

Los 66 objetos, entre los que hay piezas de oro, figuras er?ticas,
vasijas con forma de animales, anillos de oro que se usaban en la
nariz y figuras de plata, ser?n enviadas a Colombia la pr?xima semana
a Bogot? mediante una empresa colombiana.

Herrera dijo que es "muy posible que las piezas vayan al Museo
Nacional de Colombia".

El C?nsul General de Colombia en Miami, Luis Ignacio Guzm?n, dijo a
Efe que "esta entrega de piezas arqueol?gicas demuestra la
colaboraci?n entre dos naciones".

Las piezas "muestran parte del patrimonio nacional que fue robado y
que debe regresar para ser colocado como lo que es: un patrimonio de
la naci?n al servicio de la educaci?n, investigaci?n y orgullo de un
pueblo", destac?.

A Bagnato tambi?n se le incautaron 412 piezas precolombinas de Per?,
incluyendo una vasija de cer?mica de 3 mil 500 a?os, una de las
mayores recuperaciones de piezas arqueol?gicas peruanas tra?das de
contrabando a este pa?s.

Los artefactos peruanos, entregados al Gobierno de Lima el a?o pasado,
provienen de las culturas Mochica, Chim?, Chancay y Cuspinique y datan
de mil 500 a?os antes de Cristo.

El C?nsul colombiano coment? a Efe que "aqu? hay una lecci?n para
todos los que participan en el tr?fico cultural de los pueblos, que
ese tr?fico no paga, deja muchas p?rdidas y como consecuencia la
c?rcel".

Agradeci? en nombre del Presidente de Colombia, ?lvaro Uribe, la
entrega de las piezas y resalt? que para los colombianos "es una
constante el apoyo que nos brinda Estados Unidos en varios aspectos:
en la protecci?n de nuestro patrimonio y en la cooperaci?n mutua de la
lucha contra las drogas y el delito".

Cheers,
Erik

Erik Boot's Ancient  Mesoamerican News Updates
http://ancient-mesoamerica-news-updates.blogspot.com/

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Message: 4
Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2008 19:31:21 -0500
From: michael ruggeri <michaelruggeri at mac.com>
Subject: [Aztlan] POSSIBLE CONFUSION OVER TEOTIHUACAN TUNNELS OR CAVES
To: aztlan at lists.famsi.org
Message-ID: <6E99F1B6-517D-4ED9-8E14-2FFDDE45B708 at mac.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed

Listeros,

The recent exchanges about the Teotihuacan tunnel below the Pyramid  
of the Sun created some understandable confusion. There are two  
tunnels in question. One is the 330 foot lava tube below the pyramid  
which has always been open for investigation. Even as we speak, there  
is a muon detector in place in that cave trying to ascertain whether  
there might be other hidden chambers within the pyramid. They were  
having trouble with the equipment and there has not been a report on  
the findings yet.

And then there is another tunnel below the pyramid which is 200 feet  
long which Kim has told us is man made and which is now opened after  
30 years and is being investigated.

These are two different tunnels in question.

Kim may be able to give us further info on the muon detector experiment.

Mike Ruggeri

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Message: 5
Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2008 22:40:15 -0500
From: michael ruggeri <michaelruggeri at mac.com>
Subject: [Aztlan] 4 CEREMONIAL VESSELS FOUND CUSCO
To: aztlan at lists.famsi.org
Message-ID: <9D073857-2FEF-4FAA-97B3-54227B0A0721 at mac.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;	charset=US-ASCII;	delsp=yes;
format=flowed

Listeros,

Archaeologists have found ceremonial artifacts at the Killarumiyoc  
site near Cusco. They comprise four decorated vessels used for ritual  
purposes. It is unusual that they have been found in a terrace.

Andina has the short report here with a photo;

http://www.andina.com.pe/Ingles/Noticia.aspx?id=60DVcUdeSLM=

Here is a tiny URL;
http://tinyurl.com/59q7vk

Mike Ruggeri

Mike Ruggeri's The Ancient Americas Breaking News
http://web.mac.com/michaelruggeri

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Message: 6
Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2008 19:11:24 -0700
From: Randa Marhenke <randa at armory.com>
Subject: [Aztlan] Maya, Mesoamerica
To: aztlan at lists.famsi.org
Message-ID: <200807081911.aa26372 at deepthought.armory.com>

1.For Proskouriakoff's "Maya Sculpture":
http://www.mesoweb.com/publications/Proskouriakoff/Proskouriakoff.html

2.For photo index on Mesoweb:
http://www.mesoweb.com/photo/index.html
Great photos here, including from Morley's "Inscriptions of Peten"

3.For Peqafiel's "Catalogo Alfabetico":
http://books.google.com/books?pg=PA4&dq=Catalogo+alfabetico+de+los+nombres+d
e+lugar&lr=&id=9W4SAAAAYAAJ&as_brr=1

or (thanks, if this works, to Dave Pentecost): 
http://tinyurl.com/6yachk
That tinyurl ought to work--I've tried it, it worked for me, but I am still
amazed. If it doesn't work for you, blame me.  If it works for you, give
credit to Dave Pentecost for explaining it clearly to a person ignorant of
computer ways.

Enjoy those sites,
Randa

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Message: 7
Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2008 19:49:49 -0700
From: Randa Marhenke <randa at armory.com>
Subject: [Aztlan] Maya, Mesoamerica--Pre-Script
To: aztlan at lists.famsi.org
Message-ID: <200807081949.aa05031 at deepthought.armory.com>

Sorry about that--the first bit of my last note didn't get scanned by me
into
the post.  I meant to explain that those were very interesting and/or useful
sites.

Randa

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Message: 8
Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2008 01:29:22 -0400
From: "John B. Carlson" <Tlaloc at umd.edu>
Subject: Re: [Aztlan] POSSIBLE CONFUSION OVER TEOTIHUACAN TUNNELS OR
	CAVES
To: michael ruggeri <michaelruggeri at mac.com>, aztlan at lists.famsi.org
Message-ID: <p0624082dc499f5d4072c@[192.168.1.100]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed"

Hello Mike,

I think there is still a lot of misinformation out there regarding 
the "cave" or "tunnel" beneath the Pyramid of the Sun. I believe the 
confusion persists. Perhaps you or someone (Kim?)  could cite the 
relevant publications or notices that clarify this situation 
regarding TWO caves or tunnels. The one that I know about, and have 
been inside of, was found in modern times, around 1970, I believe. (I 
haven't checked my notes, but I believe the exact date of discovery 
is not precisely known... at least it is not in print.) It was first 
described by my friend and colleague, the late Doris Heyden. The 
"cave" had been entered and looted in ancient times, including 
"explorations" by the "Aztecs", as well as in the 20th century. In my 
mind there is still a question as to what aspects of this "cave" were 
natural and what parts were modified by the Teotihuacanos, because it 
clearly had been heavily worked. It has never been properly studied 
with full archaeological investigations and reports and the results 
of the current project(s) will be most welcome. There are several 
hypotheses that have been proposed as to the function of this cave 
and new results will help to test them, I am sure.

Yes, there are 20th-century archaeological tunnels in the pyramid, 
but I am not sure that the details of the several projects -- in 
progress now -- have been sorted out yet by what has been said. I 
hope someone who knows can clarify this.

And Mike... thanks for all of your great reporting for the AZTLAN 
list. What you do is greatly appreciated,

John Carlson

At 7:31 PM -0500 7/8/08, michael ruggeri wrote:
>Listeros,
>
>The recent exchanges about the Teotihuacan tunnel below the Pyramid 
>of the Sun created some understandable confusion. There are two 
>tunnels in question. One is the 330 foot lava tube below the pyramid 
>which has always been open for investigation. Even as we speak, there 
>is a muon detector in place in that cave trying to ascertain whether 
>there might be other hidden chambers within the pyramid. They were 
>having trouble with the equipment and there has not been a report on 
>the findings yet.
>
>And then there is another tunnel below the pyramid which is 200 feet 
>long which Kim has told us is man made and which is now opened after 
>30 years and is being investigated.
>
>These are two different tunnels in question.
>
>Kim may be able to give us further info on the muon detector experiment.
>
>Mike Ruggeri
>_______________________________________________
>Aztlan mailing list
>http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/aztlan
>Click here to post a message Aztlan at lists.famsi.org
>Click to view Calendar of Events
http://research.famsi.org/events/events.php

-- 

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Message: 9
Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2008 09:08:06 -0500
From: michael ruggeri <michaelruggeri at mac.com>
Subject: [Aztlan] THE TUNNELS UNDER THE PYRAMID OF THE SUN
To: aztlan at lists.famsi.org
Message-ID: <A0A06788-793F-4B0D-9101-68670875816F at mac.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;	charset=US-ASCII;	delsp=yes;
format=flowed

John and Listeros,

Here is an article I posted at the time on muon detectors being used  
in Belize and at Teotihuacan inside the 330 foot lava tube under the  
Pyramid of the Sun.

http://www.sciencenews.org/view/feature/id/9179/title/ 
Muons_Meet_the_Maya

Tiny URL;
http://tinyurl.com/6b49t7

And an article I posted in 2004 about the muon detector experiment in  
the tunnel underneath the Pyramid of the Sun from Physics Today

http://scitation.aip.org/journals/doc/PHTOAD-ft/vol_57/iss_2/31_1.shtml

Tiny URL;
http://tinyurl.com/5e5tb2

There was also a program on "Digging for the Truth" on cable which  
took us to the Muon detector inside the Pyramid of the Sun and walked  
us through the lava tube.

So the main tunnel has been open since its discovery in 1971. The  
other tunnel that was just re-opened after 30 years is a different  
tunnel and as Kim pointed out, is man made.

Mike Ruggeri

Mike Ruggeri's Teotihuacan; City of the Gods
http://tinyurl.com/2nrs9d

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End of Aztlan Digest, Vol 32, Issue 9
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