[Aztlan] 13 x 20 is commonplace

[John Major Jenkins]

Carl and Lloyd,
"Zero Day" is not appropriate since the Long-Count-unit-place-value-designator that is utilized in the 3114 BC date/numerical-and/or-calendrical position holder (as found in the hieroglyphic record) is actually 13.0.0.0.0, not 0.0.0.0.0. And our own translated concept of "zero", though possibly loosely appropriate as long the proper linguistic caveats are always stated and acknowledged by the general consensus, is also loaded with Western (non-Maya) conceptual scientific/mathematical baggage. If we want to be true to the Maya meaning, let us recall that the Maya symbol that we translate as "zero" is a shell. Thus, the way that we should refer to a date 0.0.0.0.0 would be "shell-shell-shell-shell-shell."

JMJ
   

-----Original Message-----
>From: Carl callaway <ahchich1 at yahoo.com>
>Sent: Jul 21, 2008 5:10 PM
>To: ECOLING at aol.com, Aztlan ><aztlan at lists.famsi.org
>Subject: Re: [Aztlan] 13 x 20 is commonplace
>
>Dear Lloyd,
>
>Thanks for your comments. Yes you are correct "Era Day" is also a loaded term. Can we come to a consensus as to what to call this? Zero Day is a good possibility. Are there others to consider?
>
>Yes, I should have not used the e-word "extraordinary" but  do like the beauty how certain Maya mathematics work out-even in mundane calculations. I will refrain from such flowerly words and praises in future listings.
>
>I look forward to more comments on the topics of "Zero Day" mathematics and events.
>
>All the Best,
>
>Carl
>
>  
>
>----- Original Message ----
>From: "ECOLING at aol.com" <ECOLING at aol.com>
>To: aztlan at lists.famsi.org
>Sent: Monday, July 21, 2008 12:01:18 PM
>Subject: [Aztlan] 13 x 20 is commonplace
>
>Carl Calloway may have brought out something intresting, I don't know,
>that requires a few more minutes and more than a first reading to evaluate.
>
>But I have to point out two weaknesses immediately.
>Carl writes:
>
><<
>What is so very extraordinary about this CR is that  if you count 13 B'aktuns
>above or below it you will end up on a day 12 Lamat. Count 13 B'aktuns and 13
>Piktuns above or below the day 12 Lamat 11 Kumk'u and one will again fall
>upon a day with a 12 Lamat. Keep adding higher cycles with multiples of 13 and
>one will land on yet another 12 Lamat (note if the base CR was 11 Imix, or any
>other 260 day, then following the same addition of thirteen cycles, another 11
>day 11 Imix will be reached).>>
>
>This is not extraordinary at all.
>
>Any even number of Winals will be divisible by 20.
>So a multiple of 13 times that
>(or 13 times any larger period ending which is a multiple of winals,
>like TUUN, K'atun, Baktun, etc.)
>taken as a DN Distance Number, will not change the day of the Tzolk'in at
>all.
>
>This is most emphatically *not* a property of the particular calendar round
>mentioned by Carl,
>nor of any particular calendar round.   It is true for *all* calendar rounds,
>and is a property of the base-20 system and the 260-day cycle.
>
>This should be a warning sign of how easy it is to believe there is
>something significant in facts where there is nothing such at all,
>there is mere mathematical necessity.   Like the fact that any decimal
>number ending in 0 is divisible by 5.   That says nothing about what
>the Maya were thinking about any particular dates.
>
>*
>
>Carl's wish to refer to "13.0.0.0.0" as the "Era Event" embodies
>the same unwarranted assumption as I was commenting on with
>John Major Jenkins.   (At least if it refers to the future.)
>Referring to the date in 3114 BC, we can more objectively term it something
>like the zero-point of the (present 5-digit) long-count.
>It is not a good idea to embody wishes and assumptions in terminology,
>unless we are truly certain that the assumptions are all correct,
>not merely wishful hypotheses.
>In that I agree with Carl (so not "creation event",
>but the term "era event" is just as full of assumptions.
>
>I'll get back to the more interesting possibilities that Carl mentions.
>
>Best wishes,
>Lloyd
>
>Lloyd Anderson
>Ecological Linguistics
>PO Box 15156
>Washington DC 20003
>ecoling at aol.com
>202-547-7683
>
>
>
>**************
>Get fantasy football with free live scoring. Sign up for
>FanHouse Fantasy Football today.
>
>(http://www.fanhouse.com/fantasyaffair?ncid=aolspr00050000000020)
>_______________________________________________
>Aztlan mailing list
>http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/aztlan
>Click here to post a message Aztlan at lists.famsi.org
>Click to view Calendar of Events http://research.famsi.org/events/events.php
>
>
>      
>_______________________________________________
>Aztlan mailing list
>http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/aztlan
>Click here to post a message Aztlan at lists.famsi.org
>Click to view Calendar of Events http://research.famsi.org/events/events.php
>
>