[Aztlan] zero does not mean "shell"

[ECOLING at aol.com]

JMJ is wrong about "shell" because his "translation" is assuming that it is 
taken
as representing the object which is used as a symbol.   That is what using 
the
English word "shell" carries as connotation, and cannot be correct here.
   
Rather, it is a symbol which (via emptiness perhaps, or a hole, or something
like that) represents the mathematical concept of "none", or close to zero.
Since the Mayan is using a place notation system, that brings it still closer 
to
our zero, though surely the connotations are not exactly the same.
I really doubt that there is any better translation than "zero".

So we should *not* refer to Mayan "0.0.0.0.0" as 
"shell.shell.shell.shell.shell" 
That would be a gross misrepresentation of its meaning.
Just as would be "circle.circle.circle.circle.circle" in English,
even though the digit <0> does have the shape of a circle.
The *form* of a symbol, once it has become a symbol,
is normally almost completely irrelevant to its meaning in actual usage,
and often even irrelevant to its connotations.

***

As to the date in 3114 BC,   it could also be called the "starting point"
of the current 5-place long count.   

That is probably better than calling it the "completion point" of the 
preceding cycle, 
since (contra JMJ) there is evidence in calculations for both 
<13.0.0.0.0> and [20].0.0.0.0 as the mathematical value at those completions. 
  
The Maya did show an appreciation of the edge-like nature of the end of
one month and the beginning of the next month, an ambiguity at the margin,
in some of the rarer glyphs they used for this edge transition.

Back to the "13" in the Baktun's position --
The "13" actually appears in the Dresden, though not much elsewhere 
(and why this difference in context?)
in what look like ordinary dates or calculations. 
Long strings of "13"s are singularly *not* like ordinary dates.
As I pointed out in an earlier message, that makes it singularly irregular 
to claim that one Pictun equals 13 Baktuns, 
since that should normally be written 1.0.0.0.0.0
with the 1 in the next place of the place-notation system,
and occasionally we do have such notations.   
Those occur in the normal contexts and forms for dates.
It is the ones with the "13" which are anomalous.
We do not yet know how to interpret this,
or whether the "13" is symbolic of something else,
like "completed long ago" without an exact mathematical value.

Best wishes,
Lloyd Anderson
Ecological Linguistics
PO Box 15156
Washington DC 20003
ecoling at aol.com
202-547-7683



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