[Aztlan] zero does not mean "shell"

[vgray (gotsky)]

David has given the key. Completion and zero are mathematically equivalent. 
If the cycle begins at 1 and ends with completion, then in a cyclic state 
where the last day rolls over to the start of the next cycle, then 
completion now precedes day 1. Ipso facto completion precedes day 1, and 
this is mathematically day zero prior to the day one. The lunar cycle 
terminates on the last day of the lunar cycle at completion - it immediately 
precedes a moon age of 1. Moon age at completion in a supplementary Lunar 
Series possesses no age - it is simply zero - the last day - and 
mathematically, day zero as a start, or completion as an end, are 
synonymous - it is the same point. If it cannot be differentiated 
mathematically (i.e. trapped in a synchronous or cyclic state) then to 
attempt to differentiate it is tantamount to an impossibility. A sine wave 
crosses the x-axis at completion at exactly the same moment as the start of 
the next cycle. The exact moment of sunset end's the day, and immediately 
starts the new day at the same moment in time.

Completion cannot be differentiated from zero in cyclic constructs. If its 
mathematically consistent, then that is what the Mayans intended, and I see 
no sense in denying it. The Long Count starts at zero, and I posit the risk 
in assuming it is extremely low. It makes no difference - if (0.0.0.0.0) is 
the start then (13.0.0.0.0) belongs to the next cycle not the current. If 
(0.0.0.0.0) is the last day of the previous cycle, then (13.0.0.0.0) is the 
last day of the current cycle. If this is not true then the 13-baktun-cycle 
length is compromised. The Mayans never compromised cycle intervals, because 
consistency must rule.

The Mayan concept is modern because to do otherwise is mathematically 
inconsistent - and that the Mayans were not. Distance Numbers extend into 
the previous cycle, then with equal ease we move forward to cross the zero 
boundary back to the current cycle. That by definition means the cycle 
starts at zero. It it were not zero a mathematical inconsistency would 
arise, which never does, and so again consistency rules.

Sometimes Meanest pick too fine a point and meander into the realm of make 
believe and inconsistency, and yet being blind see it not.

If its mathematically consistent then go ahead and use it.

Cheers Cliff



----- Original Message ----- 
From: "David Hixson" <chunchucmil at yahoo.com>
To: <aztlan at lists.famsi.org>; <ECOLING at aol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2008 6:20 AM
Subject: Re: [Aztlan] zero does not mean "shell"


> Not to delve too far into Lloyd's and JMJ's recent comments, but I would 
> like to add one observation regarding the shell glyph...
>
> I have seen many lectures (although I do not know if this is in print 
> anywhere - I would appreciate any references others may know about), that 
> the Maya shell (or any other signs that are generally interpreted as 
> "zero" could equally be seen as "complete" or "full".  Mathematically, 
> they would function the same way, but it would be a difference in emic 
> perception of the place value.  In other words, the Maya vigesimal system 
> could be seen as:
>
> shell, 1, 2, 3, 4... 19
>
> or
>
> 1, 2, 3... 18, 19, shell
>
> In other words, in the second instance the shell is NOT twenty, but simply 
> "full" or "complete" -- indicating the need to move over a place value.
>
> Again, mathematically, the results are the same.  But the perception of 
> that particular place value may be different in western culture vs. the 
> scribes of the ancient Maya.
>
> So, to make any conjectural interpretation of the reason why "shell = 
> zero" (such as "empty" or "hollow") would be inappropriate.
>
> -Dave
> ____________________________
> David R. Hixson
> PhD Candidate
> Tulane University
> chunchucmil at yahoo.com
>
>
>
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