[Aztlan] DICK AND NICK; SUNFLOWER CONTROVERSY

[michael ruggeri]

Hi Ben,

It is a confusing I know. Let me provide the links to the two  
articles so you can see the timelines. This will clear up the confusion.

The one posted by another listero on May 7 is here and this is the  
one you are quoting from;
http://www.springerlink.com/content/8475434537757k61/fulltext.html

Heiser's article above was submitted for publication in September of  
2007.

I posted an article earlier on this controversy but the article I  
posted is a much newer article on the subject and things have changed  
since September of 2007. National Geographic published the article  
below on April 28, 2008 detailing a new look at the evidence by a  
team led by David Lentz at the University of Cincinnati and they come  
to the conclusion that the sunflower was indeed domesticated in  
Mesoamerica independently.

Here is that article;
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2008/04/080428-sunflowers- 
mexico.html

The argument is not over for sure but the new details strengthen the  
independent domestication idea considerably.

I hope that clears up the confusion.

Mike Ruggeri




On May 8, 2008, at 9:10 PM, Benjamin Carter wrote:

> Mike,
>
> I am not sure what you mean by your last sentence: "The story I  
> posted earlier is a new article on Heiser's more recent discoveries  
> on this matter which in fact proves he was right with his earlier  
> assertion that sunflowers were independently cultivated in  
> Mesoamerica without having learned this from further north." Having  
> read the article (and feeling a little guilty about the potentially  
> erroneous information that I passed on to my students as well), I  
> don't see how Heiser's new article proves that sunflower was  
> independently cultivated (do you mean domesticated?). Your  
> statement seems to contradict Heiser's statement: "In summary,  
> there is no convincing evidence for the sunflower in the  
> archaeological record of Mexico, and the historical record provides  
> no support for the domestication or pre-Columbian presence of the  
> sunflower anywhere south of northern Mexico." Care to elaborate?
>
> Ben Carter
>
> michael ruggeri wrote:
>> Dick, you do not have to worry about mis-informing your students  
>> on  the sunflower story. The last story posted on the sunflower   
>> controversy from another listero was an article from September  
>> 2007  from Charles Heiser. The story I posted earlier is a new  
>> article on  Heiser's more recent discoveries on this matter which  
>> in fact proves  he was right with his earlier assertion that  
>> sunflowers were  independently cultivated in Mesoamerica without  
>> having learned this  from further north.
>>
>> Mike Ruggeri
>>