[Aztlan] Plaster & Echoe

[Paul Troemner]

Sid,
Here are responses to your latest questions.  Please accept my heartfelt apologies if you didn’t want your original questions brought back to AZTLAN.

Sid: I feel obliged to reply now that some of my off-list comments were brought on list.

Paul:  I did not intend to slight or offend by bringing them to AZTLAN.  I thought the questions were very appropriate and I thought you wanted me to respond to the list, particularly with the units of measure.

Sid:  It appears that of the three points that you brought to the list that none were really answered.  #1.  Unit of measure. I asked for one and did not get one.

Paul:  Let me repeat myself: ‘This [Tomkins] book has a lot of archaeological history and dimensions for the the Pyramid of the Sun, including maps of the seven-pronged cave or tunnel (entrance, two side "petals," and four end "petals"), showing units in "hunabs" and meters.’  The “hunabs” shown on a diagram on page 336 indicate the “hunab” is slightly longer than a meter, with about 90 hunabs to about 96 meters, and indicates the diagram is "as drawn by Harleston."  So Falken Forshaw is correct.

Sid:  #2 when I commented on, "and appeared to have specific shape requirements" instead of getting those requirements I was presented with the argument that 'they must have'.  And I agree, the Maya didn't just haphazardly toss shaped stones about.  They planned and I agree that they planned.  But this only give support that they planned not that they planned with acoustic design principals in mind.  It appears that the argument for acoustical design is proceeding along the lines of proving the existence of Acoustic Design by the theory of Intelligent Design.  I don't buy either.

Paul:  I was addressing the idea that regardless of no drawings or inscriptions “to scale,” there was planning, and I was not addressing acoustic design principles being in the mind of the designer, but merely deliberation is used when tools are used for layout. 

Sid:  #3. …Too much assumption here and the reasoning is flawed because
it is circular…

If you would … offer:

   1.  some of your reason(s) for same and
   2.  how you are going to advance your hypothesis
   3.  How professional and others on the list can advance the hypothesis

It would go a long way towards resolving the question in this particular
structure.

Paul:  I am not an acoustic engineer.  I am a civil engineer.  All I am saying is they possibly had the tools and technology to build acoustics into the structure.  In order to design 10-cycle echo walls into the Castillo (a name I believe the Spaniards gave it, “the Castle”) or Pyramid of Kulkulcan (which is Mayan, Kulkul – Quetzal and Can - Serpent, and the Aztec refer to as Quetzalcoatl – Quetzal bird and Coatl for snake) would be a 3-4-5 square, a measuring stick, and (not mentioned in the earlier post) a stop watch.  The stop watch could be as simple as a water vessel with a small hole in the bottom that you cover with your finger until you “start,” and walk with it as it drips, covering the hole with your finger when you “stop.”  Figure the speed of sound by walking off say 1000 hunabs from an echo wall, have someone clap while you operate the stopwatch and wait for the report or echo to come back.  Count the water spots on the
 ground.  Use the same stopwatch to measure the length of the Quetzal chirp.  With the known speed of sound and the length of the chirp, they have what they need to design the chirp into the building.  Have the 10-cycle echo walls (9 near-vertical faces on the pyramid, and the wall of the structure on top) fade out by reducing the width of the faces, and slightly increasing the distance to each face from the clap-point.  The top width of the structure is approximately 1/4 of the bottom width, which is part of the acoustic design to get it to fade out.  

For the sound comparison, see http://www.ocasa.org/sounds/qqcaca.mp3 which was linked within http://www.ocasa.org/MayanPyramid.htm link that I posted earlier.  The first two chirps are from the Quetzal bird.  The third and fourth chirps are from claps in front of the Pyramid.  What is amazing is the lengths of the chirps are each about a half second long, and have the fade out at about the same rate.  I would recommend someone printing an oscilloscope scan of the sound of these chirps to see how the sound waves compare.

I would also like to see someone with a very loud rattle stand at the same location, and give it one good hard short shake.  I wonder if a snake rattle sound comes back.

So as far as light and sound shows go for this structure, we have:

The light show for the snake (the snake shadow climbing the staircase near Summer Solstice time).
The sound show for the Quetzal (clap and it comes back a chirp).
Maybe a sound show for the snake (rattle once, and it comes back snake rattle).

Does that leave an as-yet undiscovered light show for the Quetzal (perhaps near Autumnal Equinox or Winter Solstice)?

What happens if a pair of stone knuckledusters are slammed together instead of a hand-clap?
What if the knuckleduster and torch motif of some of the Olmec images are really stone clappers (representing thunder) and a rattle (representing rain)?

We may be rediscovering part of some lost pageantry for this structure.  If the four sides of this structure had similar dimensions and construction, perhaps this was repeated in the four cardinal directions from the structure, similar to how the Concheros' repeat in the four cardinal directions near Teotihuacan?  What Mayan or Aztec customs or pageants center around the Pyramid of Kulkulcan, and do these incorporate any of the light or sound displays?

I don't think we'll conclusively answer the question about acoustic design, but I think we may discover other things about the structure in the process of wrestling with the question.

Thanks, Sid.

Paul Troemner