[Aztlan] Plaster and Echoes

[D. Clark Wernecke]

Message text written by "David Lubman"
>D. Clarke Werneke wrote:

David, please its just Clark - no "e"

>Clarke is mistaken that extensive rebuilding of the staircase has
corrupted 
>the acoustical finding. As I previously pointed out, the chirp is present 
>and identical - though weaker - at the two unrestored staircases.

I have never seen a report from the Mexican reconstruction of the Castillo
but I have seen before and after pictures. 
Theres a pretty good shot of it in Morris' "Temple of the Warriors" (1931)
as well which shows a lot of reconstruction 
on at least three sides (that you can see). They also used some portland
cement which has to be quite diffrent 
acoustically than the lime mortar used by the Maya. If you have seen more
detailed information on the reconstruction please 
tell me where as I would love to read through it.


>Even if only one or two recognized the sound their affirmation would
confirm 
>that belief for others.

Sure it would - but enough to make it worth designing a pyramid around it? 

>Maya hunters imitated bird calls. I imagine the bird call vocabulary of
Maya 
>hunters was extensive. I was told that the quetzal is among the bird
species 
>that respond to the sound of their own call. The Laconda sp?) indians use 
>that technique to the present day.

Yes, the Lacandon do use that method. How do you know that ancient Maya
hunters did? 
I'm really not trying to be snotty here but as an archaeologist I can't say
in a paper or report that
the Maya did this or that because I feel that they did - I have to back it
up with proof.

>Many Maya traveled extensively in connection with the feather trade. The 
>Maya were preeminent because their ancestral homelands included the cloud 
>forest habitat. Their travel included trips to the cloud forest for
quetzal 
>captures, feather harvesting, and customer visits throughout much of 
>Mesoamerica. The itinerant vendors known as  pochtecas (merchants who
lead) 
>were among them. Below is a quote from my online essay 
>http://forecastpublicart.org/anthology-downloads/kiser.pdf
>They carried the feathers from the Guatemalan highlands to
>lowland religious centers, including Chichén Itzá. In fact, quetzal
feathers 
>have been found as far north as New Mexico and as far south as the Andes.
The 
>pochtecas were more than traveling salesmen. They were members of a guild
sworn to act with 
>humility and modesty. 

A pochtecatl (pl. pochteca) was a long-distance trader BUT an Aztec one.
People often conflate the Aztec and Maya - 
different people and (when talking about the ancient Maya centers)
different times. We know that the Maya traded but 
we do not know about the organization of the trade. 
        There are six species of quetzal living over a large area
(including Arizona and New Mexico). What we are all talking 
about here (I hope) is the Resplendent Quetzal. I often see the information
on the internet that they were found from N. Mexico to the 
Andes but I have not been able to track down where these feathers were
found (feathers rarely exist on the archaeological record). 
I am aware of the evidence for military macaws in New Mexico. I'm curious
about this - does anyone have an answer out there for the evidence?

> may have given rise to the image of the flying serpent that 
>rose to the heavens and then plunged to the earth. The Mayan inhabitants
of the cloud 
>forests must have known these vernal sights and sounds well.

David - here's my problem illustrated. "May have given rise to..."  Is it
possible? Sure, it could very well be. 
Do we have any evidence for this theory? No.  I know and you know that they
thought a lot of the Resplendent 
Quetzal but going beyond that without evidence requires the use of language
such as "of course" and "it is self-evident" and 
(I shudder) "everyone knows" that I am not supposed to use in my
professional capacity.

I have worked with a lot of Maya buildings and pyramids and many of them
have a pretty good echo of one sort or another when you make a noise in 
front of them. My guess is that most of that is simply because they are
very large masses of stone masonry reflecting sound and I can get the same
thing 
on many modern buildings - heck, there's an echo from my garage door. I'm
really not trying to be a jerk or just bust your chops about this. I'd
WOULD LOVE it to be true - wouldn't that just make the ancient Maya
builders that much more interesting? But you have to proove it. I've been
working with Maya architecture for quite a chunkl of my life and I just
don't see that kind of attention in the field.

Keep trying!

Clark Wernecke