[Aztlan] Southeastern US/Mesoamerican language contacts

[Robert Hall]

Paul,
     My take on Raven Hail's book is that it is a good example of ancient Mesoamerican influence on Raven Hail, not on the Cherokee's of times past. I note among the negative comments for the book on Amazon.com the following: "As an official of the Cherokee Nation, let me advise the readers that the 'teachings' of 'Raven Hail' are not endorsed by the Nation, nor in fact, do they follow any Cherokee historical or cultural beliefs that I have ever heard."
      Bob Hall
     P.S. Your second posting to Aztlan (today, Friday, AM) came through scrambled and unreadable.
--- On Thu, 8/27/09, Paul Troemner <troemner at yahoo.com> wrote:


From: Paul Troemner <troemner at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Aztlan] Southeastern US/Mesoamerican language contacts
To: "Aztlan" <aztlan at lists.famsi.org>, "Robert Hall" <robertleonardhall at sbcglobal.net>
Date: Thursday, August 27, 2009, 2:31 PM


Bob,

I have a book entitled, "The Cherokee Sacred Calendar, A Handbook of the Ancient Native American Tradition" by Raven Hail, published by Destiny Books, One Park Street, Rochester, Vermont 05767, www.innertraditions.com, copyright 2000 by Raven Hail.

Although I looked high and low in the book for source material, reference material, and so forth, I found none.  I am interested in where Raven Hail got this information, and whether or not this is some kind of new-age borrowing from a Mesoamerican culture, or else how long it has been in use by the Cherokee.

These are the twenty day signs:

turtle - dak'si
whirlwind - agalu'ga
hearth - o'ya
dragon - ukte'na
serpent - do'tsi
twins - takato'ka
deer - ahwu'sdi
rabbit - noqui'segwa'
the river - yun'wi gunnahi'ta
wolf - kana'ti [note this is not "wa'ya" the common Cherokee word for wolf]
raccoon - kvh'li
rattlenake tooth - kanu'ga
reed - i'hya
panther - saho'ni
eagle - uwo'hatli
owl - u'guku'
heron - guwi'sguwi
flint - dawi'sgala
redbird - totsu'hwa
flower - gun'tsi

Note flint and rabbit are 10 days apart.

The thirteen numbers are listed in the book are the same as Mayan numbers.

Aug 27, 2009 is listed as 1 Rabbit.

http://www.teoria.com/jra/maya/rueda.html
lists Aug 27, 2009 as 1 Lamat 6 Mol, 12.19.16.11.8

Paul

--- On Thu, 8/27/09, Robert Hall <robertleonardhall at sbcglobal.net> wrote:

> From: Robert Hall <robertleonardhall at sbcglobal.net>
> Subject: [Aztlan] Southeastern US/Mesoamerican language contacts
> To: "Aztlan" <aztlan at lists.famsi.org>
> Date: Thursday, August 27, 2009, 11:44 AM
> 
> 
>      The difficulty in assessing
> Southeastern-Mesoamerican contacts is that they are
> distributed over several thousand years. I see no reason to
> believe that Muskogean languages and their carriers
> originated outside of the eastern United States, despite
> traditions that may be interpreted to the contrary.
>      Selu and Tawiskala present different problems.
> Selu has an occurrence limited to Cherokee, i.e. Southern
> Iroquioian. Tawiskala has cognates in northern Iroquoian ---
> Five Nations Iroquois --- as well (Mooney 1982:453).
> Furthermore, Tawiskala 'Flint, Ice' is featured in myths
> where he is in constant conflict with Rabbit. This brings to
> mind the opposition of Flint and Rabbit in the Mesoamerican
> sacred 260-day year. These days are 10 days apart in the
> list of 20 day names and thus opposed in the manner of (sky
> associated) Rain and (earth associated) Water, or Death and
> Vulture (a carrion eater seeming immune to death). or Eagle
> and Snake, as in the Mexica origin story. Half-way through a
> 52 haab cycle any winal day associated with Rabbit, for
> instance, becomes associated with Flint instead. Half-way
> through a 1508 haab solar drift cycle any winal
> day associated with Rabbit becomes associated with Flint
> instead. Half-way through a 3276
>  haab Tuxtla cycle any winal day associated with Rabbit
> becomes associated with Flint instead.
>       Bob Hall.