[Aztlan] SE/MESO retransmit

[Robert Hall]

 I base my identification of Orion with the firesticks constellation on multiple grounds: 
     (1) As Sahagun illustrated Mamalhuaztli, it clearly represents the belt and sword of Orion seen as a hearthboard and drill.
     (2) Aztec warriors burned the image of the firesticks constellation onto their wrists; the three stars of the belt/hearthboard asterism in Orion formed the wrist of the Hand constellation on the North American Plains
     (3) The image of the firesticks burned onto their wrists served a purpose in the Aztecs' afterlife; so also did certain scars burned onto the arms of Sioux men and Shawnee men for that matter, suggesting a practice with deep roots on the continent. 
     (4) The hearthboard and drill components of a set of firesticks correspond to the sacred hearth and xocotl pole in the Aztec Feast of the Dead and to the hearth and world tree/spirit trail) in the Maya creation story as read from the inscriptions. This hearth was identified with Orion and with a turtle. Turtle hearths are not peculiar to the Mayas. The Sioux and Pawnee also have them. 
     Bob Hall

--- On Sun, 8/30/09, D. M. Urquidi <deamayaspin at yahoo.com> wrote:


From: D. M. Urquidi <deamayaspin at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Aztlan] SE/MESO retransmit
To: "Robert Hall" <robertleonardhall at sbcglobal.net>
Date: Sunday, August 30, 2009, 7:40 AM


Bob:

THe fire-sticks is not and never was Orion. The mirror of Tezcatlipoctli's foot is Sirius, the Dog Star.
Sahagun gives an extremely good description of the Fire Sticks, near Gemini (Mastelejos = M (place of) astelejos = Gemini) near el signo del Toro NOT Taurus, which was a known constellation at that time.)
D. M. Urquidi
P. O. Box 49485
Austin, Texas 78765
http://www.mayalords.org
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/ancientamericas/


--- On Sat, 8/29/09, Robert Hall <robertleonardhall at sbcglobal.net> wrote:

> From: Robert Hall <robertleonardhall at sbcglobal.net>
> Subject: [Aztlan] SE/MESO retransmit
> To: "michael ruggeri" <michaelruggeri at mac.com>, "Nick Hopkins" <nickhopkins at live.com>
> Cc: "Aztlan" <aztlan at lists.famsi.org>
> Date: Saturday, August 29, 2009, 4:24 PM
> 
> 
> Nick and Mike,
>      I agree that precautions are necessary. Quite a
> few years back I was working in a fairly isolated former
> Indian mission town in Venezuela. One of the residents knew
> that I was making a special note of distinctive local usages
> of words and expressions. He began bringing me some real
> puzzlers, words that seemed to be in an archaic Spanish. The
> excitement waned when I discovered that he was picking words
> from a Latin Bible that he recognized as being cognate with
> Spanish words he knew.
>      One of the genuine, I feel, substrates of mythic
> themes in the New World relate to the constellation Orion,
> which widely turns up in connection with stories about
> individuals who have lost a body part. For Greek Orion it
> was an eye. For Egyptian Osiris it was his penis. For the
> Navajo it was a scalp. For the Crow and Hidatsa it was a
> hand. In South America it was a leg. Though I know of no
> explicit connection with Orion, I would add to this list
> Tezcatlipoca. Tezcatliopoca lost his foot to the crocodilian
> Cipactli, who in turn lost his lower jaw, just as one of a
> set of South American twins lost his leg to a crocodilian,
> who in turn lost his lower jaw. The leg became Orion, the
> jaw the Hyades. In the case of Tezcatlipoca there is an
> implicit connection to Orion, however. In his guise as
> Mixcoatl Tezcatlipoca drilled the first fire. Orion is the
> firesticks constellation, of course. Bob Hall
> 
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