[Aztlan] "Robert Re: SE/MESO retransmit

[Robert Hall]

     I missed the arm of Hunahpu only in the posting you responded to. In an earlier posting to Aztlan I compared Hunahpu's lost arm and 7 Macaw's lost teeth to the missing foot of Tezcatlipoca and the missing mandible of Cipactli and to the twin's lost leg and cayman's lost mandible in the South American tale. This poses the additional problem of 7 Macaw being a bird and Cipactli being a crocodilian. This seeming contradiction I see as an evolution in divergent directions from the presence early in Preclassic times of an avian-saurian deity.
     The avian-saurian creature took the form of a crocodilian with bird head around 1000-800 BCE in the eastern US and in first millennium CE at Cocle in Panama. Some of the ceramic flutes from Veracruz also feature the same or similar composite creatures, one of them a feathered iguana. 
     As for Osiris, when his body was reassembled the one part that could not be found was
his penis, which had been eaten by an Oxyrhynchus fish. Osiris was one of a set of twins, by the way.
     As for the mirror on Tezcatlipoca's foot being Sirius, I would call attention to the fact that Mirror that Smokes, Mirror that Steams, is the ritual term for the earth, as explained in Andrews and Hassig's commentary on Alarcon's Treatise on Heathen Superstitions. It was the earth monster, after all, that consumed Tezcatlipoca's foot. Tezcatlipoca was not himself the Smoking Mirror in the metaphoric sense but rather in the metonymic sense of He-of-the-Smoking-Mirror. The association of earth and mirror is found in the North American Plains as well. There was a practice of divination involving the blood of a badger as a mirror viewed by moonlight. If fresh, the blood would have steamed. The badger was an earth metaphor.
     Bob Hall
 

--- On Sun, 8/30/09, d m urquidi <dreemwea at gmail.com> wrote:


From: d m urquidi <dreemwea at gmail.com>
Subject: "Robert Re: [Aztlan] SE/MESO retransmit
To: robertleonardhall at sbcglobal.net
Date: Sunday, August 30, 2009, 6:24 AM






Bob:


I took offense at the fact that you missed the arm of Hunahpu and the emasculation of Cronos. Osiris symbol is not a penis, but the spinal cord. Hence, it is one of the pillars of the world, The Milky Way. He also describes the Rose Tree (the other pillar) as the Great Star, not Venus in spite of the friars.


Sahagun explained where the Fire Sticks Chapter III are located (contrary to B. Tedlock's version) and confirms it Chapter IV, nbr IV. And in the title of Chapter III, the MasteleJos that becomes
M = place of; astillejos - Gemini AND MasteleRos.


Phillips Jr., Henry (1883) History of the Mexicans as Told by Their Paintings Translated and edited by Henry Phillips Jr. Proceedings of the American Philosophical Society XXI:616-651, 1883. (edited  for FAMSI by Alec Christensen)


It is also in my new book Turquoise Teeth: Jewel Eyes. Tried to send you a few chapters but even gl-mail will not carry both. 

What is so amazing to me, is that you all see the pieces, (if you all had not done that I would never have found what I see) but you all have no way to connect them. You see to be tied to the statues and stories of the gods instead of what they mean. Don't mean to rant, but GEE WHIZ!!!!!
D. M. Urquidi P. O. Box 49485 Austin, Texas 78765 http://www.mayalords.org http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/ancientamericas/ --- On Sat, 8/29/09, Robert Hall <robertleonardhall at sbcglobal.net> wrote: > From: Robert Hall <robertleonardhall at sbcglobal.net> > Subject: [Aztlan] SE/MESO retransmit > To: "michael ruggeri" <michaelruggeri at mac.com>, "Nick Hopkins" <nickhopkins at live.com> > Cc: "Aztlan" <aztlan at lists.famsi.org> > Date: Saturday, August 29, 2009, 4:24 PM > > > Nick and Mike, >      I agree that precautions are necessary. Quite a > few years back I was working in a fairly isolated former > Indian mission town in Venezuela. One of the residents knew > that I was making a special note of distinctive local usages > of words and expressions. He began bringing me some real > puzzlers, words that seemed to be in an archaic Spanish. The > excitement waned when I discovered that he was picking words > from a Latin Bible that he recognized as being
 cognate with > Spanish words he knew. >      One of the genuine, I feel, substrates of mythic > themes in the New World relate to the constellation Orion, > which widely turns up in connection with stories about > individuals who have lost a body part. For Greek Orion it > was an eye. For Egyptian Osiris it was his penis. For the > Navajo it was a scalp. For the Crow and Hidatsa it was a > hand. In South America it was a leg. Though I know of no > explicit connection with Orion, I would add to this list > Tezcatlipoca. Tezcatliopoca lost his foot to the crocodilian > Cipactli, who in turn lost his lower jaw, just as one of a > set of South American twins lost his leg to a crocodilian, > who in turn lost his lower jaw. The leg became Orion, the > jaw the Hyades. In the case of Tezcatlipoca there is an > implicit connection to Orion, however. In his guise as > Mixcoatl Tezcatlipoca drilled the first fire. Orion is the > firesticks constellation, of
 course. Bob Hall > > _______________________________________________ > Aztlan mailing list > http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/aztlan > Click here to post a message Aztlan at lists.famsi.org > Click to view Calendar of Events http://research.famsi.org/events/events.php > > >

-- 
D. M. Urquidi
dmu Ink
P. O. Box 49485
Austin, Texas 78765
http://www.mayalords. org