[Aztlan] list of possible contact N-S

[Marcelo Donadello]

Without leaving the "caution" side,  I think that is possible to try a list
of possible events or signs of contact between Mesoamerican and Andean cultures. I remark the word "possible". To give like sure some possibility on the basis of partial tracks would be risky.  But to ignore the need of comparative study of the history of North and South America before Colon may be equally rash.

I suggest a few:

1 - Use of maize (corn) as principal food

2 - Zipacna and Pachacamac. They share the characterization of being the god who moves or destroys the mountains (gods?) This characterization is not very common in other pantheons.

3 - The voyage of the lords... An Inca Lord travels beyond sea (to the West? or to the north?), Naylamp comes from beyond the Sea (from the west? o from the north?), the children of the founders of the Quiche travels across the sea, to the east... other tales talk about the west (less) .. (why not the south?) The Pacific Ocean, for us, at the west of America, is the South Sea for Mesoamerica, in the same way the Caribe (Atlantic) is not the East but the North. To "sail across the sea" should have had a precise meaning in pre-Columbian times: neither Asia nor Europe were within the usual scope of their ships. The sea existed, the ships existed, the trips existed, then "to cross the sea it" would have a simple and precise meaning before Colon. 

------------
As allways, forgive my english (see: I didn't say forgot anymore!) and my imprecissions and presumption. 

Marcelo Donadello

 El dom 30-ago-09, Karrie Porter Brace <chacnikteilna at hotmail.com> escribió:

> De:
> Asunto: Re: [Aztlan] CAution: southeast  /mesoamerican contacts
> Para: "Aztlan Aztlan" <aztlan at lists.famsi.org>
> Fecha: domingo, 30 de agosto de 2009, 3:23 am
> 
> Comparison of stories in multiple cultures can yield some
> interesting information, but let's be cautious.  If we
> follow the route of Mircea Eliade or Claude Levi Strauss we
> tend to "cherry pick" those characters, events or traits
> that seem to be similar and support our thesis/argument
> while glossing over the details or differences that really
> make these things unique in their own culture
> histories.  We perceive these archetypal themes because
> they make sense to us, they are relevant in our
> culture.  These may not have been so relevant when
> comparing these cultures in their own contexts in the past.
> 
> There are some strong suggestive similarities among those
> things being duscussed.  The data really require close
> examination to be determine what we're comparing are apples
> to apples, not apples to oranges. Time and contact change
> things too. It is difficult to determine the original
> meanings  of components in stories and mythic themes
> from archaeological contexts or oral histories passed down
> through generations.
> 
> Karrie Porter Brace, La Pelirroja Peligrosa
> While the rest of the species is descended from apes,
> redheads are descended from cats.  --Mark Twain
> Redheads are children of the moon, thwarted by the sun and
> addicted to sex and sugar. --Tom Robbins
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> > Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 11:59:02 -0700
> > From: teshunka at yahoo.com
> > To: aztlan at lists.famsi.org
> > Subject: [Aztlan] southeast  /mesoamerican
> contacts
> >
> > Hello listeros,
> >
> > A very interesting discussion, but I think some of the
> argument is a bit backward. Reference to Brer Rabbit, for
> instance. African scholars find very few parallels, but the
> tales clearly parallel Indian stories, as Mooney himself
> noted. For instance, the mosquito story, where Brer Rabbit
> has to show his worthiness as a suitor by enduring swarms of
> mosquitos. This is a Hopi legend, isn't it?
> >
> > Likewise, Iroquois parallels to mesoamerican would
> seem an obvious companion to spread of corn cultivation.
> Falling sky woman and hero twins ring any bells?
> >
> > South to north transmission in comparatively recent
> past is less mystical than circum-polar culture, but more
> plausible.
> >
> > Best,
> >
> > Jim Adams
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
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