[Aztlan] 2012 show featuring someone you know
Jorge Pérez de Lara
jorgepl at estudioelias.com
Tue Jul 7 11:28:19 CDT 2009
John, Mark and friends,
Inasmuch as "apocalypse" is a Judeo-Christian (Muslim?) notion, I
agree that it has no place in Classic Maya contexts. I suspect,
however, that "apocalypse" (less the capitalized "A") is being used
here as a generic reference to a cataclysmic event.
In this regard, I am not aware of any evidence that the Maya thought
that the coming 13.0.0.0.0 would bring forth any such cataclysmic
event. (Or "an age change", for that matter.)
I don't think either the Maya considered that particular period ending
merely as the resetting of an odometer. I think there is ample
evidence that period endings were important to them and that they had
a number of ceremonies and rites to celebrate/mark them. I think it is
reasonable that a baktun ending would probably be even more meaningful
to them than a k'atun ending, if for no other reason than its relative
rarity.
Do I think there is evidence that they thought that 13.0.0.0.0 was
more meaningful than other such rare baktun endings (i.e., 10.0.0.0.0,
11.0.0.0.0 or 12.0.0.0.0)? No, I don't and I am not saying that they
didn't, just that no evidence has been found to assert such a thing.
Easy or not, I think you should welcome your "hero" role, Mark, as a
chance to dispell some of the fallacies regarding Maya culture that
the mass media love to foster among the general public.
My two cents.
Jorge
On Jul 7, 2009, at 9:06 AM, John Major Jenkins wrote:
> Hi Mark,
> Congratulations on your prime-time appearance! Personally, I avoided
> Penn & Teller like the plague, but since you were selected for the
> "hero" role, your job is easy. All you have to say is "the Maya
> never predicted apocalypse in 2012." It's kind of ironic that I've
> been saying the same thing for some twenty years. It's true: the
> conflation of apocalypse with 2012 is a humongous piece of
> disinformation foisted upon the public by a stupidity-reinforcing
> mass media and an exploitative marketplace. However, a second layer
> of disinformation exists in this discusion, one that Penn and Teller
> don't care at all about, one that most Maya scholars have proven
> unwilling or unable to address. This is the unwarranted subsequent
> assumption that "the ancient Maya had no concept at all about 2012."
> As Penn & Teller would say: "bullshit!" This viewpoint assumes that
> we, as modern thinkers, cannot possibly reconstruct or encounter any
> evidence in the inscriptions or other Maya traditions th!
> at tells us anything about how the ancient Maya would have thought
> about 2012. This identifies the unenviable place that I have held in
> this discussion (for longer than there was even a discussion!), as
> "a researcher who has found evidence that the Maya referenced 2012
> (a.k.a., the end of the current 13-baktun cycle) in ways that were
> meaningful to them." I sincerely hope they don't make you seem
> like a fool; luckily for you this is unlikely as you have been
> selected to say the obvious and to correct the silliest and most
> simplistic misconception that exists in the 2012 discussion. I've
> been handing the same thing to the media repeatedly for years:
> apocalypse is a concept from a linear time philosophy, and the
> modern mind tries to jam it into a cyclic time philosophy (2012) ---
> a place it doesn't belong. "Apocalypse in 2012" is a projection of
> our own culture's greatest fear onto the Maya's 2012 date, a
> projection of a cataclysmic scenario onto a tradition that saw cycl!
> e endings as times of transformation and renewal. Of course, this way
> of phrasing it probably strikes a little too close to home for the
> media - it also uses too many polysyllabic words for the expected
> low-grade demographic of their viewers or readers.
>
> So, I guess my question to you, Mark, is, do you currently believe
> that 2012 had absolutely no meaning to the ancient Maya, to the
> creators of the Long Count, and to the Classic Period Maya, such as
> those who inscribed Tortuguero Monument 6? My own view is that, at
> the very least, the Maya would have thought about 2012, as they
> thought about all cycle endings, big or small, as a time of
> transformation and renewal that required sacrifices. In fact, a
> modern ethnic Maya scholar, Victor Montejo, thinks of it in this
> way. There are scholars who do suggest ways to think about 2012.
> David Freidel, for example, encourages the public to think of 2012
> as a vehicle's odometer resetting. Perhaps we can have a vote from
> the numerous people on this e-list: shall we subscribe to the Maya
> concept of transformation and renewal in 2012, or should we think
> of it with the modern mechanical metaphor of a gas guzzler's gear-
> clock resetting? I invite everyone to please return your responses, A!
> or B, directly to me. Maybe we can improve the integrity and
> cogency of this discussion and move it forward a little:
>
> A: The ancient Maya thought of 2012 as a vehicle's odometer
> resetting to zero.
>
> B: The ancient Maya thought of 2012 as a time of transformation and
> renewal requiring sacrifices.
>
> Best wishes,
>
> John Major Jenkins
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Mark Van Stone <mvanstone at swccd.edu>
>>> Sent: Jul 7, 2009 1:45 AM
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>>> " <P.Mathews at latrobe.edu.au>, "Leon at reinhartfoundation.com" <Leon at reinhartfoundation.com
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> net" <bsprague2 at cox.net>, "radiocafe at ksfr.org" <radiocafe at ksfr.org>,
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>>> Subject: [Aztlan] 2012 show featuring someone you know
>>>
>>> Dear Friends, (And I had forgotten how rich I am in friends, till
>>> I started making that list of "Oh *they'll* want to know" people
>>> above...),
>>>
>>> Well, the Penn & Teller 2012 episode on Showtime cable network
>>> will air, they say, on 16 July. I am supposed to be at the end,
>>> explaining patiently that the Maya never predicted an apocalypse
>>> at all... etc., etc. They call that role "the hero," but I expect
>>> as always happens when media people try to explain complex (or
>>> even simple) intellectual ideas to the masses, they'll find a way
>>> to embarrass me. (Thanks, Sandy for siccing them on me!) Now, I
>>> know nearly NOBODY out there subscribes to Showtime, but maybe you
>>> know someone who does... Anyway, they promised me a DVD when it
>>> airs...
>>>
>>> Penn & Teller: Bullshit!: The Apocalypse
>>>
>>> Description:
>>> In episode 704, Penn and Teller follow investigators to Mexico
>>> where they probe the mysterious, doomsday "Mayan Prophecy" that
>>> the world will end on exactly December 21, 2012.
>>>
>>> Rating: TVMA
>>> Duration: 28 Mins
>>> Showtime Advisories: Nudity, Graphic Language, Adult Content
>>> Audio Format: Stereo / CC / ESP
>>>
>>> Ways to Watch:
>>> On Showtime
>>> 07/16/09 at 10:00 PM (More Airings: click here)
>>> On Demand Available from 07/17/09 to 10/06/09
>>>
>>> ( The above announcement downloaded from the Showtime website http://sho.com
>>> )
>>>
>>> Sorry about the "global" email... Hope this finds you ALL thriving.
>>> _______________________________________________
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