[Aztlan] 10 Preclassic and prehistoric posible Long Count Dates

Wed Mar 25 13:12:10 CDT 2009

The following link will take you to the complete investigation in spanish 
with all of the pictures http://mexicoantiguo.org/CL2009.html , if you have 
a problem with any of the links please copy and paste it to your browser. At 
the moment its just the introduction.

I have found several styles of presenting the Long Count, the one that is 
easier to read is the "date on the right side of the arm of the principal 
antropomorph character on the scene" Being very ancient paintings and 
petroglyphs not all of them are very easy to read and we have several 
options of dates for most of them. This style or very similar, will be used 
in Baktun 7 and 8.

This is a list of the dates and a link to their picture:

Oxtotitlan arqueological finding from 1200ac to 500ac.

One posible reading is Oxtotitlan 1 6.5.15.5.10  / Tonalli 12 itzkuintli / 
CUAN and Spinden Correlation 895ac 5 Flower or Ahaw.
The Baktun is har to read so I have tried the following variations of 4 
orders katun/tun/uninal/kin 5.15.5.5 / 5.10.5.5 / 6.5.6.6 / 5.5.5.5,
for Baktun 8, 7 and 6. At the moment we see a stronger Baktun 6.

http://mexicoantiguo.org/imagenes/aoxto2.jpg

http://mexicoantiguo.org/imagenes/Nueva%20carpeta/Ketsalkoatl2.gif

http://mexicoantiguo.org/imagenes/Ketsalkoatldate2.jpg

The two following dates I am more confident on the images and their 5 
orders:

Oxtotitlan 2  5.6.6.6.6 / Tonalli 11 Death / G9

http://mexicoantiguo.org/imagenes/D1.jpg

http://mexicoantiguo.org/imagenes/d1tonalli.jpg

http://mexicoantiguo.org/imagenes/Nueva%20carpeta/d1tonalli3.jpg

http://mexicoantiguo.org/imagenes/Oxtotitlan_clip_image002_0002.jpg

Possible G9 close to the date.

http://mexicoantiguo.org/CL2009_clip_image002.jpg

http://mexicoantiguo.org/CL2009_clip_image004.jpg

In Acapulco we find the Pox Ceramics one of the oldest of Mesoamerica 
2800ac.  2300ac

Acapulco 1                 3.3.4.3.2 / Tonalli 2 Wind
Acording to the Correlation CUAN and the correlation Spinden the Shiwitl or 
Haab year was 3 monkey 2168bc,
we can clearly see a 3 Monkey with a sign of the year on the left hand.

http://mexicoantiguo.org/imagenes/Nueva%20carpeta/acapulco3.gif

http://mexicoantiguo.org/imagenes/Nueva%20carpeta/33432acapulco.gif

http://mexicoantiguo.org/imagenes/Nueva%20carpeta/33432.gif

The CUAN correlation uses a nemotemi (+1T) every four years and every 520 
years goes back 4 Tonallis and changes the cross of the name of the year. 
Acording to the CUAN there is evidence the solar year Shiwitl or Haab was used by all Mesoamerican 
with the same correlation of date. The Nawa Shiwitl year is named by the day 
of the first cenital pass on the lattitud 18 of La Venta, Tabasco  and 
Teopanteocuanitlan in Guerrero. The Maya Haab is named by the second cenital 
pass in the same Latitud 18. There is evidence that aproximatly every 500 
years the Name of the 4 tamemes or chargers, changes, the last change was 
made by the Mayas but not by the nawas because they arrival of the Spanish 
first to the Nawa lands. For more detail "Sacred 13" from Frank Diaz.

Apart from the dates there is a simbol that keeps repiting with many of the 
dates the "V" or doble "V", related to the movement of the sun of the sky 
ans the soltices, I belive is the seating of the "X", the seating of the Long 
Count as we can see on this date 
ttp://mexicoantiguo.org/imagenes/alvarado.jpg  or on this other long count 
date that is very hard to read because I belive uses a fonetic / simbolic 
language http://mexicoantiguo.org/imagenes/elsitio.jpg . I just publish in 
my web site an investigation related to this possible simbolic style of the 
Long Count that is only use with dates of the Baktun 1, I belive they 
conmemorate an astronomic event in the past. http://mexicoantiguo.org/CL20099.html

I feel the positions of the arms and legs can tell us about the celestial 
event, right arm pointing earth with open hand and left arm pointing to a 
circle (unity) could mean a summer solstice and the oposite right arm up and 
left pointing down a winter solstice. May be putting the two hands toghether,
like we cna see in Copan, means a cenital pass or an equinox. Just an idea.

There is another group of dates that show another style, related to Baktun 
4, using the "4 extremities and the tail of the jaguar or the bird", to show 
the 5 orders. This might not be a long count date, I study other lines of 
investigations: could be a hidden system, that only wise peolple used, also 
related to astronomic events and what could be called mantra chanting.

Juxtlawaka 1

We can read the posible date on arms, legs and tail; using the brown dots, 
from right arms, right leg, tail, left leg and arm.

4.6.2.3.7 10 Manik / lase G9 en Juxtlawaka, Guerrero

http://mexicoantiguo.org/imagenes/Nueva%20carpeta/Juxtlawaka3.gif

http://mexicoantiguo.org/imagenes/juxtla.jpg

I am evaluating other possible dates especially 4.5.2.3.6 and 
4.5.2.3.7. On this painting we can see also black dots the could also be 
another date 4.4.1.12.1 or 3.3.0.12.1.

Other similar dates:

4,3,2,2,4 / Tonalli 4 Kuetzpallin Lisard  / G8
http://mexicoantiguo.org/imagenes/Nueva%20carpeta/Dibujodfyfdt.JPG

4.3.7.3.4 / 4 Kuetzpalin / G1
http://mexicoantiguo.org/imagenes/copan.jpg

4.2.4.2.4  and 4.2.3.2.6
http://mexicoantiguo.org/imagenes/Nueva%20carpeta/teotiwakan.gif

4.4.4.4.2 / 6 Wind / Spinden CUAN 1714bc Shiwitl Year 1 Ollin Movement
http://mexicoantiguo.org/imagenes/Izapa.jpg

I found also on Rupestre paintings on Chihuahua a posible date using a 
similar style Baktun 14
14,11,13,6,15 / 12 Aguila Matlaktliomome Kuautli
http://mexicoantiguo.org/imagenes/Nueva%20carpeta/chihuahua1.gif

And in Queretaro another Baktun 14
14.15.8.10.10 / 8 Itzkuintli Querétaro
http://mexicoantiguo.org/imagenes/Nueva%20carpeta/queretaro1.gif

I dont feel very confortable with any of the correlations GMT, 
Spinden, AMT etc, So its hard to make an acurate astronomic relation.
I know some of this possible dates look just like a wild guess, but I belive 
they need to be studied properly, before we can discard them as one.

I look foward to your comments.

Pedro de Eguiluz