[Aztlan] God L's tobacco

[Mark Van Stone]

Dear Johanne,
    God L may be the same as Bolon Yokte' K'uh, if one follows Michael Grofe.  I came independently to the conclusion published earlier by Marc Zender that God L is named on the Vases of the 7 and of the 11 Gods (from memory: K2796? and K7750) as the first god in the text, something like "Black-Heart God."  The Maya names for most of Schellhas' gods are dicey at best.  For years we were CERTAIN than God D was the same as Itzamnaaj, now we're not so sure.  God K is probably K'awiil, and God H the Maize god seems to be Ixim (overlaps with Ix, "Lady", suggesting his androgynous quality...).  God N is probably Pawahtuuun, but his name glyph in the Dresden usually has a numeral 4 or sometimes 5 prefixing it.  Go figure.  
    I am sure more up-to-date epigraphers have enhancements to these opinions.
    Sincerely,
    Mark Van Stone
________________________________________
From: aztlan-bounces at lists.famsi.org [aztlan-bounces at lists.famsi.org] On Behalf Of Johanne Tournier [jltournier at ns.sympatico.ca]
Sent: Sunday, November 08, 2009 2:43 PM
To: 'Jorge Pérez de Lara'; 'Aztlan'
Subject: Re: [Aztlan] God L's tobacco

Hi, Jorge. Barbara. Karen et al!

Yes, Karen Bassie sent me a line drawing of the image off-list, and of
course that's the same as the original in the link sent by Barbara on-list.
My picture does have a label on the back reading "Templo de la cruz
foliada," but it appears from the consensus opinion of you knowledgeable
types that that was wrong.

Got another question - is he only known to us as "God L" or do they have
some idea of what his name actually was to the classic-era Mayans?

Thanks to you all for your help!

Best wishes,

Johanne

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                          Johanne L. Tournier
          Email – jltournier at ns.sympatico.ca
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-----Original Message-----
From: aztlan-bounces at lists.famsi.org [mailto:aztlan-bounces at lists.famsi.org]
On Behalf Of Jorge Pérez de Lara
Sent: Sunday, November 08, 2009 4:25 PM
To: Aztlan
Subject: Re: [Aztlan] God L's tobacco

Johanne,

Without seeing the actual image you are referring to, there is a
chance I may be wrong, but from your description, the watercolor you
bought is probably the very famous image of (yes) God L smoking a fat
cigar, which used to be on the outer jambs of the shrine inside the
Temple of the Cross (not the Foliated Cross). Among souvenir peddlers
in Palenque and in the old guide literature, the image is known as "El
Fumador" ("The Smoker"), but it is in fact one of the best depictions
of a full-bodied God L, shown not only with his jaguar pelt cloak, but
also with his characteristic hat, fringed with the characteristic
black-on-white feathers (and even the head) of the Muan bird.

Jorge


On Nov 8, 2009, at 12:58 PM, Johanne Tournier wrote:

> Hi, Karen -
>
> I can't comment on your idea of the practicality of cigar-smoking on a
> journey; I'll leave that to other experts. But - a few years ago I
> bought a
> modern watercolor on bark paper of a god smoking a cigar - I think I
> got it
> in the Popul Vuh Museum in Guatemala City, but it says it's from the
> Temple
> of the Foliated Cross; that would be Palenque of course. I
> understood it to
> depict Itzamna. He is wearing an elaborate headdress and has a cloak
> made of
> jaguar-skin. So my question of course is - does the fact that he's
> smoking
> mean that it must be God L? Was Itzamna also sometimes depicted with a
> cigar?
>
> I could scan the painting and send it to you if it would be helpful.
>
> Thanks for your help!
>
> Johanne
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