[Aztlan] Cipactli=Star/Venus?

[Gary Daniels]

Karen, (and anyone else)

Take a look at this series of Venus/star glyphs from H. J. Spinden: (scroll
down to the Illustrations section...It's the first image- labeled "Fig 3
Venus Glyphs"...also labeled "1a. The Venus Symbols")

http://www.kacike.org/SanchezFUNDESIN.html

The bottom row of glyphs feature several crocodile-looking glyphs. The first
appears to be a crocodile without a lower jaw which reminds me of Cipactli.
The second glyph appears to be the "Starry Deer Crocodile." The third
appears to be the Cosmic Monster which includes EK' as its eyes. The last
glyph in the same row also appears to be a crocodile without a lower jaw,
again reminding me of Cipactli.

According to this chart, these are all Venus symbols. Is there consensus
that these are all Venus or star symbols? Or is this outdated information?

If they are star/venus glyphs, do the glyphs that look like Cipactli
represent a Mayan version of Cipactli? Or are they completely unrelated to
Cipactli and just happen to look like Cipactli? If they do represent a Mayan
version of Cipactli, then doesn't this suggest that Cipactli has an
association with stars...at least with Venus...since these are all listed as
Venus glyphs?

-Gary Daniels
http://www.LostWorlds.org








On 1/24/10 11:24 PM, "Karen Bassie" <rick.bassie at nucleus.com> wrote:

> <>Gary,
> I think that the Milky Way crocodile is parallel to the crocodile deity
> Zipacna of the Popol Vuh. Although the name Zipacna is likely derived
> from Nahuatl cipactli, the life and death of Zipacna does not parallel
> the female Cipactli whose body became the surface of the earth.
> Zipacna was defeated by the hero twins. They convinced him to crawl into
> a cave at the base of Meauan Mountain to get a crab. When he couldn't
> reach the crab, they suggested he go in on his back. The mountain then
> settled on his chest and killed him.
> The contemporary Maya highland stories that parallel the Zipacna story
> indicate that Meauan (which means daughter of a lord) was thought to be
> the manifestation of the corn goddess, and thus, it was the corn goddess
> who actually did away with him. The contemporary stories also indicate
> that Zipacna didn't stay in the cave but eventually entered the sky (see
> my volume Maya Sacred Geography and the Creator Deities for an overview
> of these tales).
> Taube (Research Reports on Ancient Maya Writing number 26) has discussed
> some Postclassic Maya images of crocodiles that he thinks represent the
> surface of the earth. He also thinks these crocodiles are a deity called
> Itzam Cab Ain who is mentioned in several of the Chilam Balam books from
> Yucatan. These passages refer to a deity called Bolon ti ku who
> prevented a crocodile deity called Itzam Cab Ain from taking over the
> Peten and destroying it. Bolon ti ku then cut Itzam Cab Ain's throat and
> used his body to form the surface of the Peten.
> In the Classic Period text on the Palenque Temple 19 platform, there is
> a reference to two crocodile deities who apparent get their heads cut
> off (Stuart 2006). Erik Velasquez Garcia
> (http://www.mesoweb.com/pari/publications/journal/701/Flood_e.pdf) has
> suggested this is a reference to the Chilam Balam episode.
> I think there is a better parallel with the Popol Vuh story. There is a
> pair of crocodiles in the Piedras Negras Period Ending scenes and the
> Paris Codex Period Ending scenes. One these crocodiles is bound and
> headless, the other is the Milky Way crocodile. I have suggested the
> bound crocodile might be parallel to Zipacna's brother Cabracan who was
> also defeated by the hero twins. The twins tied Cabracan's hands and
> feet, hurled him into the earth and buried him. When he moves, he
> presumably causes earthquakes because that is what Cabracan means.
> Following the defeat of Zipacna and his brother Cabracan is the flooding
> of the world of the wooden men and then the creation of the people made
> from corn.
> By the way, Nick Hopkins and I have been to the cave at the base of
> Meauan Mountain and it actually has the form of a crocodile mouth.
> 
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