[Nahuat-l] Tloc, nahuac, tech, tlan

[David Wright]

Thanks, John. If it's a modern form that wasn't used four centuries or so ago, I guess I can leave it off my table, unless an early colonial example pops up. I should pull down some texts from this period from SUP-INFOR and do some searches.

-----Mensaje original-----
De: John Sullivan, Ph.D. [mailto:idiez at me.com] 
Enviado el: jueves, 12 de noviembre de 2009 07:08 p.m.
Para: David Wright
CC: nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
Asunto: Re: [Nahuat-l] Tloc, nahuac, tech, tlan

Piyali David,
	"-i:can" is the word used for "behind s.t. or s.o." in Modern  
Huastecan Nahuatl. Si I assume that the "-i:campa" of Classical is  
just "i:can + pa".
	I donʻt have any words ending in "-ca:n" that can take a possessor in  
my database.
John

On Nov 12, 2009, at 5:42 PM, David Wright wrote:

> Thanks for the distributional map, Joe. I just checked it against my  
> table
> of postpositions and locative suffixes (Lectura del Nahuatl, pp.  
> 87-94,
> currently in the process of expansion and revision for a second  
> edition). In
> this table I use as the main criterion for classification your fourth
> column, that is whether or not these morphemes are found attached to a
> possessive prefix (if they are, they are classified as  
> postpositions; if
> not, they are called locative suffixes). Most of the data are in  
> harmony,
> except in two cases:
>
> 1. You list -can (which I assume to be /ca:n/) as taking a possessive
> prefix. I haven't found any examples of this, although I admit I  
> haven't
> searched very hard. If I see examples, I'll have to move this  
> morpheme from
> my list of locative suffixes to the "postposition" category. Can you  
> give me
> a couple of examples, preferably with references to early colonial  
> sources?
> (Modern sources won't do, because I'm focusing on central Mexican  
> Nahuatl
> from 1521 to 1650.) I suppose your magic Nahuatl machine can make  
> quick work
> of this.
>
> 2. You include -ican, which I don't have on my table in either  
> category. The
> "x" in the fourth column means that it would be a postposition as I've
> defined this word. I just checked a stack of descriptive sources  
> (Carochi,
> Lockhart, Andrews, Launey, Wolf, Karttunen, and Molina's Arte) and  
> couldn't
> find this postposition, unless it's something one would see inside of
> -i:campa, "behind/beyond," after removing the locative suffix -pa. I  
> would
> like to add this morpheme to the table, but to do so I would have to  
> know
> where it is found, what it means and if it has any long vowels. Can  
> you give
> me a hand with this?
>
> David
>
> -----Mensaje original-----
> De: Campbell, R. Joe [mailto:campbel at indiana.edu]
> Enviado el: jueves, 12 de noviembre de 2009 03:36 p.m.
> Para: Michael McCafferty
> CC: David Wright; nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
> Asunto: Re: [Nahuat-l] Tloc, nahuac, tech, tlan
>
> Nocnihuan,
>
>   The things we call "postpositions" or "relational nouns" obviously
> don't all follow the same distributional map, so I have put a rough  
> one
> together.  "Rough" means that I consider just a draft, so I won't mind
> having mistakes drawn to my attention.
>
>   I include -nahuac in the list in spite of the fact that I know that
> it is really a noun with attached -c(o).
>
>   Category 5 (occurs after a noun) has a neutral label in order to
> avoid calling fish or fowl (i.e., noun compound or noun suffix).
>
>   Obviously, these categories hint strongly at the noun-like behavior
> of these objects of our attention, which goes in the opposite  
> direction
> from their frequent spatial and temporal function in the language.
>
> As Arnie said, "I'll be back."
>
> Joe
>
>  "postpositions"
>
> 1   takes a "verber" suffix
> 2   embeds in -yo(tl)
> 3   takes absolutive
> 4   takes a possessive prefix
> 5   occurs after a noun
> 6   embeds in -eh (e.g., tloqueh) [not included yet in the chart]
>
>           x = yes
>
>        1       2       3       4       5
>
> can             x       x       x       x
>
> co              x                       x
>
> huan    x                       x
>
> huic    x                       x       x
>
> ican    x                       x
>
> nahuac  x       x       x       x       x
>
> pa              x                       ?
>
> pan     x       x       x       x       x
>
> pampa   x       x               x
>
> tech    x       x       x       x       x
>
> tlan    x       x       x       x       x
>
> tloc    x                       x
>
> tzalan  x       x       x       x       x
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Nahuatl mailing list
> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl